Author Topic: What is the best technique for 5-6 week old that doesn't nap well during the day  (Read 1196 times)

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Offline samandruby

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Hi, I'm just new here and am having trouble with my daughter's day naps. She is fine during the night and can go for 5-6 hrs between her last feed (usually about 7-8pm) and the next around 1-2am. She will feed for 5-10 mins and then will go straight back to sleep. My trouble is that during the day she just resists going into her cot to sleep. She doesn't fall asleep at the breast so no problem there, but she seems to only fall asleep if she is being moved - ie carseat, pram, bouncer, rocked. I try to catch her on the first/second yawn, take her to her room, close the curtains and swaddle her, then when I see the 7 miles stare put her into her cot. It's then that she starts to cry, this can go on for up to 1hr (with me going in and out trying to calm her). I know it takes around 20 mins for them to fall asleep so I am wondering do I leave her to see if she settles within that 20 mins or do I just stay with her the whole time and pu/pd or pat and shush? She also seems to have reflux so we have raised the head of the bed up, will this be affecting her sleep? Sometimes as well she will eventually go to sleep after all the crying only to wake again between 10-30 mins later and start crying again, this is when I don't know what to do because she isn't due a feed and won't settle back down.
I'm trying to put her on EASY of 2.5-3hrs. Oh and another thing is that she tends to have a catnap in the carseat in the mornings 4 days a week when I take my son (3.5yrs) to daycare and then another one when I pick him up in the afternoon. Any ideas how to prolong this 20 min nap, she wakes as soon as the car stops.
Thanks, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Offline aurora2711

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Hi

I'm no expert on this by any means but could have written your post myself a couple of weeks ago!  I've been working on naps with my 2 month old and this is what is working for us:

First, I'm making sure I have a consistent routine for his naps - we have a walk round with him in my arms and a chat then we say goodbye to the sunshine and I swaddle him and sing to him then I start shushing.  I continue with the shushing as I lay him down and instead of patting I place my hand on his chest for comfort (the patting used to make him cry more!). When he starts to drop off to sleep then I stop shushing and remove my hand. If he cries, i pick him up and hold him close while continuing to shush (loudly sometimes!) until he calms down then he goes back down.  It's been hard work and it still sometimes takes me 30 minutes to get him to sleep but it is working and he's getting 4 naps every day. 

Also, it's so worth staying there for the first 20 minutes to help them through the wakings and jolts - you'll feel like you're spending your whole life trying to get them to sleep and stay asleep but it'll be worth it in the long run (or at least that's what i keep telling myself!)

As for extending naps - that's my next job so no advice on that one at the moment!

Hope that's of some help, I'm sure there are many more experienced mums on here who'll be able to advise you more


Offline aurora2711

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Just had another thought - for the first couple of days I spent the whole of the first 20 minutes with my hand resting gently on his chest and quietly shushing then gradually went to just doing this until he starts to fall asleep himself.  HTH

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Hi

Okay. Firstly, hugs. This is a LONG reply - sorry. Hopefully you'll find something useful in here to help you. Sorry if not.

 * So, a consistent wind-down is best. I go with simple and it sounds like you've got that covered.  :)
 * Experiment a little. See if making the room really dark helps. Make sure there's nothing stimulating around, no mobiles, no toys, nothing exciting.
 * Try some background music or white noise. Quiet and constant in the background.
 * Try using shhh patt to transition her into her cot. I've rambled on through shh patt below. Pick it up where you feel you and DD are now.... so if you think you can lay her down awake, then start at that point IYKWIM. Use the shh patt to help her move from your arms into her bed and into a deep sleep, without noticing because she will be so relaxed and focused on the shh patt. Oh, and may-be try just the shh or just the patt if you think it's too stimulating for her.

I started shh patt at 8 or 9 weeks when I discovered BW, thank GOD. Until then DS was a babe in arms and only slept on me, or by trickery. It got my LO off my chest and into his crib pn the first go so I am a massive fan. I think for some babies the combination of shh and patt can be too much (the closer they got to 3 months I found).  This is what I did to get him off me and in that crib, and stay there:

 * make that crib nice and cosy: I stuffed a couple of hand towels rolled up down the sides so it was soft and snug against his body. When he was really tiny I also took off the top I was wearing (so it smelled like what comforted him) and popped it in there too (side or underneath. A muslin that's spent a few hours under my top, tucked in my bra also worked well - folded and tucked along where a pillow would be. Great for spitups.... Oh, and a wheattie or heatpack or hot water bottle to warm up the bed just a little helped me too. Or put the blanket on a warm radiator first. Anything that would make you feel cosier if you were them, IYKWIM?

 * find a rhythm that works for you both: the first time I tried shh patt it didn't work. I was shhhing like a banshee; loudly, too fast, too stressed to be relaxing and sounded panicky. Enter DH who (less stressed and tired) found a rhythm for us. My shhh sounds, to me, like water coming in over pebbles in the tide and back out again...so it's stronger in the middle and long. Then I got my pat rhythm too, I tried the tick tock tick tock (I'd used a heart beat rhythm previously and that worked well too). Very gentle pat on middle of upper back. I kept in my head what it was meant to simulate: womb noises, the wooshing of fluids and the tick tock of your heart. Your LO's used to that sound; comfort. You're recreating it. Not loud, not stressed, not panicked...just gentle and try to tune out if you know what I mean? Sounds unbelievably anal but over a count / beat of 8 (tick tock = 2), my shh lasted 6. Silence for 2 counts and then ssshing started again. The pat was constant. To keep calm, I tried to think back to the times I would pat my tummy gently (or rub) when DS was on the inside and had hick-ups. We had more success when I was in that mindset.

 * swaddle. I think you posted that you swaddle already  ;)

 * right then. shh patt  him while holding him over your shoulder or, if you can, in a cradle position (less noticeable when LO's laid down). Keep it going: if screaming, be a little louder so LO can hear (but not so it's loud and scary) and quieter when they quiet down. As soon as you feel that lovely little body going a little more limp and floppy get ready for your move...and keep patting... and shhing...do not stop....now move them into the sleeping position still in your arms...still patting, shhing, still your warmth. Now start moving into the crib / bed, still spspspspsp. lay down gently and keep your face close to theirs (oddly warm breath near his cheek would often resettle my LO when being moved), once you've laid down, keep spspspsps. Hard so you might need to lay on side to reach back or start patting on chest (I found back hard after a while so I started patting chest before I laid down and continued in crib), keep it going but start easing off the volume and the pressure of the pat, slowing both gently. I did this until he was in a deep sleep. And sometimes he'd wake, and the SP would begin again (while still in crib whenever I could). Sometimes I'd fall asleep SP'g. Gradually (but as quick as you feel you can) start doing less and less of the sp to get them to sleep: so aim to get them in their bed, comfortable and ready for sleep. Initially, wait with them until you know they're in the deep sleep. When I was desparate for DS to get a really good sleep, I'd stay with him so that if he stirred after 30 or 45 mins, I could get him back to sleep very quickly and with little effort (often just the gentle pressure of a hand on his chest could be enough). Investing time early on pays off; leave the room too early when they're just in a light sleep and you could be doing it all over again...

 *going down sleepy but awake: great to do this if you can. I couldn't initially. DH would put him in asleep, after a few mins of sleep in arms with SP (still SPg). I would put DS in as soon as I felt his head flop a little then get him to deep sleep in crib. Over the space of a week, I put him in the crib earlier and did less SP to get him to sleep. So...initially when his head flopped a little (just fallen asleep). Next time, just as head flops. Then just as body goes limp and relaxed but before the head flop... do you see what I mean. While in the bed, gradually do less SP to get them asleep. The shh pat is the means of you sneaking them into that bed without their noticing, IYKWIM

 * keep an eye on the road ahead: where you are heading - to be able to take your baby and, after a wind-down, lay them in their bed awake and leave them to put themself to sleep. It may seem madness, but it's where you want to get to. So everything you do should be a move towards independent sleep (there are times you can't. AP with rocking etc can be necessary when you both need rest). Over time (a couple of naps, a few days, a week - depends on babe) SP slows and eases off so it's your hand on chest with a little gentle pressure. And then nothing at all

 * cries whenever you lay him down: If you were in the cosiest place you can imagine, you'd be vocal when moved. You are warm, soft, smell like home and comfort and LO's world. Snuggled up with you is where they want to be more than anything so any move from this isn't really met with great joy. The aim is to get them so relaxed and focused on the sp that they don't really notice the move (helps if you're moving them somewhere warm!) and feel that you are still near (breath, warmth, pressure of patt initially). They don't know the bed is safe. But you do. Sounds obvious but in the frustrating sleep deprived hours I had to remind myself of that all the time to keep my sanity: babies are not rational.

My LO cried everytime put down for the first few days I think. And sometimes does now. If LO's distressed and upset, pick up and keep the sp going til they're relaxed again. And start the move again...frustrating, much? I tried to comfort in crib wherever possible, but sometimes it's not. Judge quickly the type of cry - a resettlable grizzle or an all out 'I need you' cry. I'd pick up if the latter and resettle with SP in arms; I'd try to resettle a grizzley cry in the crib but not always possible.

 * OT: I have a rule that we still stick to now. If OT and the usual thing (SP or GW) isn't working, then we AP to get DS to sleep by whatever means necesarry. I had 3 options I knew: pram (didn't always work for me), car (90% success here) and my snuggled against my chest (was 100% now 5%!  ). I'd pop him in the car first of all, check he was warm enough and drive. He woke if car stopped (rushhour was a 'mare), same with a pram. I would drive for hours if necessary around and around and around. Dual carriageways, ringroads, motorway...anything to get him asleep and see off the OT demons. The next nap we'd get back to that bed.

 * If bed isn't LO's favourite place, try the afternoon nap somewhere else that they like so they get a break of scene before nighttime. I did the pram for the afternoon nap. Slept better with fresh air, helped me get out and feel a little more human.

 * sadly, no advice on extending the nap in the car. My DS was the same. Would wake as soon as the pram or car would stop. Drove me bonkers.  ::)

It's a horrifically really long post and I'm sorry. Just trying to give you everything I can think of to help you. Be patient, be calm, find your rhythm.

HTH

Charlotte

Offline Mackenzie's Mom

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I can totally sympathize!  My LO will be 6 wks tomorrow and will not nap past 45 minutes regularly.  We did manage 1 1/2 nap first thing this morning, but after that it was 45 minutes at every nap.  We try to go in and resettle her, but usually it turns out with a cycle of getting her calm again, think she is about to go back out, then she cries again. She has been on EASY for over 3 weeks now and it is a challenge keeping her on a 3 hour routine when she will not stay asleep. We seem to be able to get her to sleep initially, but cannot keep her asleep during the day and we go through the same routine everytime.  She sleeps in her crib only - I essentially have gone no where for weeks to get her to this point.  Is there something I am missing?

Offline samandruby

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Wow, thank you so much for the quick replies ladies! Especially thank you Charlotte for all the details, I tried this afternoon for the first time and amazingly enough she has gone to sleep and NO CRYING!!! I can't tell you how pleased I am, obviously it's only the first time and may not happen that easily again but yay I'm thrilled! What I did was, take her to her room when I saw her yawning, swaddled her, closed the curtains and put on the radio (just white noise though, no music) and the fan. Then I sat with her on my lap for awhile, 1 hand on her chest and started the shushing. I did this for awhile but it didn't seem to be going anywhere so I lay her in her cot, with a big pillow underneath propping her up a bit (because of the reflux) and another pillow at her feet so she can't slip down. I kept my hand on her chest the whole time and shushing just like blood going through veins. I'm not really sure how long it took, perhaps 25 mins but not a cry out of her yet. Thanks again, fingers and toes crossed this is the start of it!
A very happy and relieved Teresa

Offline A pair of Charlies

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That's fantastic news!!!

Not sure if these links might help:

Typical amounts of day and night sleep: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0
Average A times: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

McKenzie's Mum: in those really early weeks it's so hard. Are you BF or bottle? Just wondering if it could be hunger that's disturbing sleep? Have you tried white noise or staying in the room to help her into the next sleep cycle?

Offline Mackenzie's Mom

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Hi, Charlotte -

I am BF.  We have white noise going on during her sleep times and I have tried going in at the 45 minute mark and easing her through into the next sleep cycle and it worked some of the time.  Last night, I got to looking through the book where I have written all of her EASY routines and I now have a theory that it is hunger.  She seemed to be able to make it through the first nap of the day, but not the others.  When I feed her at 7am, I am very full, especially when I feed her off the left side.  I have been alternating for each feed.  The days where she nursed on the left, she slept through most of the time.  Whenever i began on the right, she wakes up early.  I am also wondering if it a growth spurt is hitting.  So, today I have tried to nurse on both sides at each feed hoping to increase my supply.  If that doesn't work, we are going to try supplementing her to rule out hunger as the problem.  I really hate to do it, but I have to go back to work in 6 weeks and I will eventually have to supplement anyway.

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Sounds like you've sussed it!

I eat porridge to up my supply. In the early days I was grazin durubg every feed...and drinking a pint of water at each feed too. I found bananas good. And 70%coco chocolate ( I think I ate Heaven) as mw told me it would help!

Offline mammans

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Hello, I am a new/proud mom of a beautiful 6 week DS. I am having the same problem as Sam & Ruby. I was so glad to find I wasn't the only one & very encouraged by the posts here. For the last two days I have followed Charlotte's suggestions, except when we had dinner with friends & a friend came to visit today. O, & my DS fell asleep on me while burping him once today...

I have been attempting EASY with him from the start, but wasn't always successful & did have a few lapses here & there.
He is a great night time sleeper, will go 5 - 7 hours every night. YEAH! But the naps are quite the opposite. I think he might be a grumpy baby, or maybe it just feels like it during the day to me. :) He is also bf.

I just want to make sure I am going about all this right & not teaching him another "prop" or bad habit.  SO, here is mostly what I do:
* Wakes around 7 - 7:30am
* Feeds for about 35 - 40 minutes
* Burp 5 - 10 minutes (depending on if I get a result)
* Change diaper (if I didn't do it before feed)
* Talk with him, may place in swing, walk around house till I see the first yawn
* Tell him it is time for nap & move toward bedroom
* Turn white noise on, swaddle, close the blinds & curtain, continue to talk with him & tell him what a nice nap he is going to have
* Sit down in rocker with DS over my shoulder & start to sh/pat
* Once I think he is relaxed enough move him into cradle position
* Once he relaxed enough (eyes closed on his way to dreamland) I get up & start walking toward crib
* I continue to sh/pat the whole time
* Sh/Pat at the crib
* Move him into crib still sh/pat
* Sh/Pat while in crib softer & less patting till I stop & just have hand on him & white noise
* Eventually move my hand a way & just sit for a few minutes.
* When I am convinced he is in a deep sleep I leave hoping for a good hour - 2 hour nap. :)

His awake time (including feeding, etc) is usually about an hour. I feel like I just go from one feeding/sh/pat to the next with very little sleep time for my DS. It takes pretty much 45 min - an hour to get to where I can leave the room, which means is has been 2 hours since he ate. In the last 2 days, most of the time once I get him asleep he'll sleep for 30 - 40 minutes & then wakes. Not sure if it is hunger (which is what I am assuming) or his sleep cycle. He had one 2 hour nap today that had me rejoicing & thinking this is really going to work.

I do understand this can take up to 2 weeks or more to get to where I can just leave him the crib, tell him to have a nice nap, I love him & leave the room. I am doing the right thing so far? When should I start doing less & how do I go about doing less? Do I spend less time in the rocker & move toward the crib sooner?

Any input or encouragement will be greatly appreciated!!! I don't want to give up, but I am tired & my wonderful DH has doubts.

Thanks!
NS

PS. I am new to the site & don't always understand all the abbreviations. ;)


Offline A pair of Charlies

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Hi

Okay. So sounds like you're doing really well and getting great naps!! Well done!  ;D

The doing less part is much simpler than it sounds really. Really, all you're going to do is just a bit less at helping you LO into sleep eachtime. So, right now you're shh patting in the crib and gently easing them as you feel you have him asleep; yes? Your next step, is just to do a little less of it, so not shhing and patting for as long. And only you can judge how quickly you can do this.

Couple of thoughts on this. You could start moving him to the crib sooner if you wanted to, so you could miss the rocker out or spend a shorter amount of time there, moving him to his crib (in the lovely gentle way you're doing) as he starts relaxing so that you're on your way by the time he's closing his eyes. Then, once in the crib, shh and patt as he relaxes off to sleep but try to slow it down to just your hand on his chest before he goes to sleep.

It might be a big jump to do in one go, or it might not. So it is up to you how quickly you do this... perhaps set your-self a fluid goal. For example, by the end of the week, aim to be putting him in his crib awake but relaxed and shh patting him until he's close to sleep, not asleep. Or you could try for more, and aim to be putting him in his crib awake and only shh patting when you just lay him down and letting him get himself to sleep. And then you do even less, aim for a time when you can lay him down in his crib (after your winddown) and leave him (awake) to go to sleep without you in the room.

Does that make sense? How does that sound? Let me know what you think and how you get along, okay?  ;)

Charlotte