Author Topic: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....  (Read 1373 times)

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Offline annette.xx

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Hi all.....sorry in advance for the looooonnnnggg post.....

My beautiful 11 wk old baby Jasmine has always been a handful but I felt like I was getting to grips finally with motherhood and now its all going wrong again......

she has always fought sleeping but with alot of AP jiggling etc... i always managed to get her to have all her naps and she was a very contented baby in between.....although night time was very difficult as she will never settle at 7pm and will continue to fight me until my last feed at 10pm.....always goes down to bed at 11pm.....

A friend gave me BW book and i started easy over a week ago......the shh pat works on all her regular naptimes i.e morning naps and first afternoon nap....but these naps were the good ones before as she would normally just need a bit of cuddling/jiggling then i could put her down half awake.....now it takes me ages but still get there in the end....

im so frustrated now cos the naps seem to be going completely wrong....she takes ages to settle and now often wakes up cryin after 45 minutes and will not settle back down.....and the afternoon naps are soooo hard.....

how do i get back on track when this happens?????

yesterday was my breaking point after not leaving the house for a week trying to get this right i made the mistake of taking her to town for the day .......BIG MISTAKE!!

She used to fall asleep when out and about so I could still easily fit my out time into the routine but now she will not sleep at all...eyes getting redder and redder and more and more OT .....this lead to an awful evening as naps had been distroyed!!!

How can i take her out and keep to routine????

I feel so alone, tired of fighting with her and caged in.....I dont know how long I can go on like this....

her routine is ;

e...7
a...7.45
s...8.....she cannot last any longer than this!!
e...10
a...10.45
s...11.30
e...1
a...1.45
s...2.30...if im lucky!!
e...4
a...4.45
s...5.30...if im lucky
e...6....will not let me do anything with her unless she has this snack
a...6.30...bath
e...6.45
s...7.15......well that would be the ideal but never happens......normally cries and cries until about 9.30.....

even when whole day goes ok after 7pm is a no go zone ....it never works.....

my husband doesnt help cos every nite he says to me that it obviously isnt working so just to bring her down and play with her to keep her happy or keep feeding her....

im breastfeeding by the way.....

Ive been given the best gift possible a beautiful baby girl and I cant enjoy my time with her cos I feel trapped in a routine forever and trapped inside this house........

Any advice would be great....im at breaking point cant stop crying now......

Annette.xx

Offline aurora2711

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 09:58:13 am »
Hi

Didn't want to read and run but my DS is due to wake up from his nap so may have to dash off any time!

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone - so many of us have been through this and you'll get some great advice from the ladies on here.  Around 3 months was a difficult time for us too and I spent many a day in tears, wondering how on earth I was going to manage.  My LO also stopped sleeping in the pram which was a nightmare as I felt like I couldn't leave the house BUT, recently he has started sleeping out and about again (he's nearly 5 months now) so this might just be a phase for you too...fingers crossed!

I just really want to give you a bit of hope - things have improved for us in the last few weeks and my LO is now taking at least one good nap a day, settling himself and sleeping in the evenings (he wasn't doing any of these things at one stage)  :D

And as if on cue, there he is!!  Will try to get back on later but I'm sure there'll be someone along soon with some advice.

((hugs))

Offline LizzieN

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 10:55:43 am »
Hello lovely,
I have posted over on one of the threads you wrote in, hopefully you get that!!  Listen I am pretty new at this too so mostly I just want to give you support.....

We had a difficult refluxy baby but we never got our LO down for an early bed time either, I know what the ideal is and I'm sure the moderators will be able to help you start working towards this, but DON'T feel like it's your fault, it's not, your baby is finding it difficult to switch off and that is difficult to manage!

Ok firstly, you are not trapped in your house.  If the afternoon is when your bubs sleep is the poorest go to town in the afternoon for a short trip (if that is possible), give her the good morning sleeps in her cot and then get out, get a "fresh nose" as my darling mum calls it...it will do you both the world of good.  If she doesn't sleep in the pram, that's ok, if she does bonus :)  Aim to be out for only one EASY, ie feed her out (if you are comfortable with that) or just before you leave, have her A time out and her S time in the pram or car then head home.  Feed her when you get home, have a REALLY low key (and probably short) A time so that she doesn't get too OT and then try and put her down.  If it doesn't work sweetie, that's ok, you tried and at least you both got some time out :)

Ok my second piece of advice is sounds like the shush pat is working when your LO is not too OT, be consistent trying to do this, give it a good go and if it doesn't work do some APOP....ACCIDENTAL PARENTING ON PURPOSE....stop feeling guilty if occasionally the technique doesn't work, likely your LO is a bit OT, probably has a bit of a sore tummy and needs a little more comfort, that is ok...you are working towards an ideal, it doesn't have to be perfect from the beginning. 

The fact that you are trying to teach your LO to self settle so early is great, just be realistic and give yourself a break if it isn't working.  Look at the clock and say, if it isn't working after 30 minutes I am going to pick up my bub and give her a cuddle and rub her back and see if that helps and if I feel better I will try again, if not I will put her to sleep in my arms and start fresh next time :)  It may mean that it takes a little longer for her to learn independent sleep, but you will get there if you try the techniques first. (incidentally I would try and not rock her, just sit down and cuddle her because soon she will get heavy and it will start to hurt you!!)

Ok with your last EASY I would look at trying to make it a little shorter and less eventful.  First question is does she like the bath?  If not I would give her a bath earlier in the day when she isn't so tired and just give her a sponge bath or a small massage after her feed, keep this really short.  Then give her a top up, a nice burp/back rub, swaddle, take her to her room (lights down) and read her a short story or sing a little lullaby (same one every time) then try and put her down.  My bub was SO OT by the end of the day that I think our "wind down" was way too much for him to handle...he is only just coping with it now at 12 months!!!

Is your LO gaining weight well?  If she is, don't worry about the b/f it's obviously working :)  Hope so.

Sorry that your DH isn't helping much, they find it hard to understand because they don't have to deal with all the OT stuff during the day.  I broke down one day and admitted to DH that when my baby woke I was already anxious about how I was going to settle him the next time, he hadn't realised how much it was doing my head in and how guilty I was feeling because I couldn't get it to work.  Keep talking to your DH, keep communicating and keep explaining why you are trying to do this, if he wants get him to come on the board and ask about it :) read some success stories etc....It's so much harder if you feel alone in your relationship, you are BOTH parents for the good and the bad times darling, show him what you are trying and ask him to learn it too so it's not all on you, it will be good for him and Jasmine in the long run too because he won't struggle to get her down when she is older if he starts now as well!!!

Ok I know I'm ranting, I'm sorry I just want to help you because I feel for you!!!  Believe us when we say that it does get easier, partly because you start relaxing more into your role and partly because your baby develops and becomes easier :P YAY You WILL GET THERE, hang in there, keep posting and chatting :)

Big hugs
Lizzie

Every time you put your LO to bed, even during the day it's the same. Take her to her room, swaddle, give her a nice cuddle same story or lullaby then put her down saying her key phrase, "night night darling, time for a sleep, love you" (or something along those lines).


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Offline annette.xx

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 11:18:44 am »
aurora.....thankyou so much for your reply....

it does help to know im not alone.......I feel like im such a failure most of the time cos everyone else I know with kids seems to have found it sooo easy....im sure they all think im causing a fuss about nothing.....

at the moment i just feel like just putting her in pushchair and spending all day everyday out of the house walking with her ...just to get some peace!!! for some reason even when OT she doesnt cry much in pushchair!!!......do you think she might eventually start to sleep in there?!!!....

dont worry tho ...i reckon ive got a few weeks of fight left in me so wont resort to that just yet!!!! (hopefully)....

how did you get your LO to start settling himself? and when did he start doing so?.....did you use shh pat or something else?.....do you put him in cot awake?

I just took Jasmine up for her nap and started the 4 s ritual...calmly sung her a lullaby,swaddled her and sat with her for 5 minutes....she always fights with me when i sit with her..scratching me,screaming and kicking so i usually have to resort to shh pat before i put her in cot!!....this nap tho as you can tell im losing that patience (see i am a bad mummy!!!) so i sat with her let her kick me etc..stayed singing calmly gave her a kiss and plonked her in cot....she started crying so shh pat a liitle in cot then the moment she calmed and stopped i just kissed her head said nite nite go to sleep and walked out!!!......and it worked...for now anyway!!!

I get the feeling that the shh pat when i do it continuously just starts to frustrate her as normally when i stay with her she keeps coming in and out of light sleep and crying again.......

how did you find the shh pat worked best??

I sometimes wish that i had never read anything about babies and just gone with the flow...after all how did we cope before all this info was around?...and my sister has a 5 month old baby who she has no routine in day with ...he just settles for naps if he so wants while sitting in his bouncy chair...no intervention he justs gets on with his own thing and cries when hungry or wants to be played with....the only routine she does have is takes him to bed at 7pm every nite and he sleep until 7am!!!!!.........

I think id feel much better if I knew she would sleep so i can get out and about....cos literally yesterday was the first time in 2 wks ive left the house in the day!!!....

I attempted goin to a friends party last saturday nite and took Jasmine to her nans and got called back after just over an hr cos she couldnt cope with her crying and could not settle her!!!....

I think the reason im so desperate now is that its my brother in law and his partners (my best mate) joint 30th party tommorrow nite and he is going to propose to her as a suprise.....all the family are going to be there and Ive planned for a friend to look after her for a couple of hrs so we can go.....but im sooooo worried bout leaving her again cos i know she is such hard work......thinking maybe i should stay at home ...but they would be upset if i did......

what would you do??

Cant beleive ive turned into this depressed person.....ive always been said to be the most laid back chilled out person.......where have i gone....somehow ive lost my spark!!!

Annette.xx

Offline LizzieN

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 11:34:28 am »
Sweetie,
You haven't lost your spark you are tired and dealing with a more tricky bub, you are still the same wonderful, relaxed person under it all....that is why you have managed to cope till now!!

Ok, my suggestions may not be helping, I don't know but here's some more advice (sorry if I"m boring you or irritating you)....

Your friends have laid back babies, they do happen believe me I've seen them....such a polar opposite to what you are dealing with, but be confident that the love and care you put into your LO now will help her to become the most wonderful and joyful little girl and woman :)

If you think the shush pat is stimulating your baby, when she starts to relax and settle down stop the patting and just put firm (but gentle) pressure on the point where you were patting, and slowly stop the shushing...I used to gradually slow down both until I was just there with my hand on my LO to hold him through the jolts.

If your bub is fighting against you (and it's not from wind pain or silent reflux - are you noticing legs being drawn up or a lot of back arching??) don't fight her find a different position. Our LO used to like lying across our arm belly down (even when swaddled) or put her down.

If you feel comfortable and would like to go to the party, go. Just tell your friend what your baby is like and tell her that she doesn't have to get your LO to sleep.  Show her which CDs your bub likes and how to swaddle and if your friend thinks she will be ok then go.  Remember it's much easier to deal with other peoples children crying because you aren't sleep deprived, and when YOUR baby cries, your whole body responds...your friend won't have that issue. 

If you want to stay home with your LO, call your friends and explain, ask if you can meet them for lunch or a drink in town during the week to celebrate their birthdays/engagement.  If they are good friends although they will be disappointed, they will understand and be happy that they will get to see you soon :)

Personally if you trust your friend, I would go...even going for a short time will be fun for you and give you a well deserved break!! :)

Hang in there hun.

Lizzie


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Offline greenefingers

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 11:38:40 am »
hi Annette, your post could be me talking!! i'm in just the same situation, it feels so lonely sometimes doesn't it. don't for one minute think that you're a bad mummy or that everyone else is doing it right. OTher mums probably look at you and think the same thing! we all struggle, and we all seem to try adn keep it to ourselves, only sharing our worries online with complete strangers! well, i know i do anyway,My LO is 15 weeks and until 3 days ago had been sleeping fine both day and night...now she's waking up fofr a feed and doing thr 45 minute nap thing. Thing is,m she's my second one so i should really have known to expect this!! alli would say is i went through this first time round and beleive itor not it does get better. My DD1 is nearly 4, goes to bed at 7 every  night and sleeps till the next morning and she's done this since she was 20 weeks old (occasional wakes up for teething). babies just love chanhging the rules on you. you jsut think you've found something that works and a few days later you feel you're back to square 1 again. have you read the FAQs on naps? I've been going through them all this morning and found it really useful to know that it's a developmental stage that they do grow out of.
i hope you feel a bit better soon as more people post their support. you're not alone!! my  main problem is i have insomnia which started when catherine started sleeping through, ironic or what, so i'm completely shattered all the time and just find it so hard to cope when she changes things again.
Hope you can get DH on board a bit more. Or, leave her with him for a day and see how he gets on!!
love and hugs
anna :)


Offline annette.xx

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 11:53:10 am »
thanks again lizzie!!

You make me feel much calmer!!!.....

with the 4 s routine.....Jasmine goes from being very happy.....is happy when swaddling her and calm...but as soon as i sit with her she starts fighting me...its as if she knows and is telling me she doesnt want to go to bed!!....next nap I will try holding her differently..see if that works!!

Think I will go to the party even if only for an hour!!!.....I just worry that by changing her routine like this it will get her into bad habits so she will never go down!!!...does it matter to break routine every now and again??

maybe I need to be more relaxed with it???


Offline annette.xx

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 12:04:22 pm »
Thanks Anna

yeah it does help to knw there are others going through the same thing!!!.....

suppose I was a bit naive to ever think that it was going to be easy!!!...although wouldnt it be nice......

The stress I used to go through when working as a manager was nothing compared to managing a baby!!! And to think I used to think I had it hard!!!

Just wish hubby would realise how hard it is....he comes home and says how tired he is and that he wants to relax.....if i get him involved with Jasmine....for example tried to get him to calm her for bed last nite at 7 he starts off ok then after just 10 minutes of trying to calm her he starts getting all stressy with her saying things like...why wont you just go to sleep or at worst pretending to cry back at her......I dont want my baby to feel this stress!!!......He puts his low tolerance down to his hard day at work and at least im at home all day!!...He doesnt realise that even when shes finally asleep in day im thinking bout what to do next and worrying.....far more stressful than any job ive had!!!

im keeping my fingers crossed that it will get better and it sure does help talking to you all on here......

Annette.xx

Offline LizzieN

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 12:11:11 pm »
No not at all sweetie.  There are plenty of nights your LO doesn't go down because she is having trouble, it's not going to hurt her if she doesn't go down because your friend is caring for her :), you never know she may sleep, she may not, it won't hurt her occasionally :) (thankfully)

Ok with your 4s, have you tried doing her cuddles standing?  Our LO was exactly like that, would start screaming EVERY time we sat down unless I had my breast in his mouth that is!!!  Give her a nice cuddle standing up, then say your key phrase and put her down, see if that helps.  I think the reason Dyllan wouldn't do sitting was because it bent him in the middle and caused him to reflux. I do wonder if you have some of that happening too....lots of babies do in the early days and it really affects how they are.  we thought we had a touchy baby, but we SO don't, he is bright and happy with very little temper when all is well.

Oh just so you know, it takes about 3 days to form a habit!!! (thank goodness)  Which is why you can do some accidental parenting on purpose if it's necessary, as long as you don't keep doing it there won't be a habit formed (also thank goodness LOL)..

Sweetie, being relaxed is a great idea, but it's bloody hard when you are tired and worried and trying to be a great mum, a wonderful wife, a dutiful Daughter In Law, your babies nutrition station, cleaning station, washing machine, cook and house keeper all at once.  

The one thing I would say is that if you can find ways to make your other tasks a little easier and let it all slide a bit, that is beneficial to you and you will be able to enjoy your LO more.  When your girlies visit ask them to bring snacks, when your MIL visits (as long as it doesn't offend) when you are going to take your LO to bed ask her if she would mind folding a little pile of washing (that will keep her out of the way while you settle bub, LOL) or fixing a hot drink for you all....Ask for help with other little things, it will ease the pressure on you.  Also EAT, when you are bfing you need an extra Sunday lunch EVERY day to make up for the calories you are putting out, so easy to get run down and not look after yourself!!!  Ask DH to bring take out a couple of nights a week if you can afford it and enjoy it together if you can :)

also, keep posting :) Love chatting and happy to help as long as you want or need it :)
lizzie


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Offline annette.xx

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 12:16:40 pm »
Lizzie...

you are a godsend!!! Im sitting here getting all emotional cos of your kindness!!

and have even forgot that its now 1.15 and Jasmine is still in bed!!...i need to wake her up....yes I can hardly beleive it myself....i actually am running behind cos i need to wake her!!!

She did wake up after 45 mins and I just ignored her cry for 2 minutes while reading replies and she went back to sleep!!! hope this works next time!!!!

Annette.xx

Offline LizzieN

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 12:22:24 pm »
Ahh sweetie, just reading your post I feel like I'm reading my thoughts back from those times :)  It is hard on our DHs, I do agree in a way but if he says that he has had a tired stressful day tell him that you do understand that and appreciate all he is doing for you both, but (and that is a big BUT) that the time he spends with Jasmine is incredibly important, that just by being there when she is crying her stress levels will be lower and she will be less distressed (sometimes it's hard to believe it, but it has been scientifically proven) and that you need his support.  Tell him that you are happy to help when it gets too much for him but ask him to calmly say "mummy I could use a break now", when you take over ask him to stay close by incase you need a break too...tag team, sweetie :) it helps!!  Also helps you to feel like you are in it together.  

Also from my mistakes I would say that having those sort of conversations is best when the baby is NOT screaming and NOT at 4am in the morning (DH and I had some ripper arguments at this time)...bad time :(

Hahaha!!
L


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Offline LizzieN

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 12:23:48 pm »
I hope so too lovely!!! Take care, go and enjoy your lovely little girl and have a great afternoon together!!! I will be round for a while and tomorrow if you need to chat!! :)
Lizzie


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Offline aurora2711

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Re: its all gone wrong will it ever get better...please help.....
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 21:41:05 pm »
Hi Annette

Sorry I couldn't get on sooner - Fridays are always a bit crazy here! 

Sounds like Lizzie has been giving you some great advice, and like she said, I could have written your posts myself a few weeks ago.  I totally agree with her about giving cuddles standing up if sitting with her isn't working.  My LO will usually sit and listen to a story but if he's squirming I always stand up and walk around, give him a cuddle and just talk to him softly.

Have you tried doing a pre 4 s's wind down too?  Before we even go upstairs I spend a bit of time walking round with LO, looking out of the window, looking at pictures etc.  It seems to calm him down a bit before we start the 4s's.  It's definately worth playing around with your wind-down a bit to find something that works for you.  Some bubs need a looong wind down, some only a very short one.  It's taken a good while for me to find what works for us - LO always used to cry when going down for a nap but does so very rarely now.

It's fine to start shush pat before you put LO in her cot - I always had to do this with my LO at first.  In fact, I used to shush pat him asleep in my arms and then put him in his cot.  I then started shush patting until he was drowsy and continuing in the cot until he fell asleep.  Remember to continue with the shush pat way past the point when your LO is calm, keep going until she falls into a deep sleep - for me this meant I was often shushing for a good 20 to 30 minutes  :o Over time I was able to gradually reduce the amount of time I was shushing for to the point where I now lay him down in the cot, say my keywords, shush once and then leave him to fall asleep on his own.  Even now though, I still stay in the room until he falls asleep.

Actually, I'm saying I used shush pat but to be honest it was more like just shush as the patting was way too stimulating for my LO.  When he went into his cot I would just lay a hand on him and continue to shush.  Again, you need to play around with what works best for your LO.   I also found that establishing a good rhythmic shhhh worked well too. So, I shush for nine counts, pause for 3, shush for 9 etc. Sounds slightly anal I know, but it works!  If shush pat is altogether too stimulating then maybe just try laying a hand on her once she is calm.

I agree with Lizzie about experimenting with different ways to hold her too if she is fighting.  My LO prefers to be held in a kind of BF position, sort of on his side, tummy to tummy with me. 

We also struggled in the evenings (my LO still goes to bed quite late - around 8.15 - though we are working on bringing this forward).  It got better just through perseverance so hopefully, if you keep your bedtime routine consistent your LO will start going to sleep earlier and earlier.  You're absolutely right not to bring her back downstairs though - some evenings I spent virtually my whole evening upstairs but it taught my LO that once he'd gone to bed, that's where he stayed!!

I think above all else, don't give up!  When I think back to the days when my LO would scream before every nap, and for ages at bedtime, would only nap for 45 minutes and never self-settled, I can't believe how far we've come.  There are still lots of things I need to work on and I still have days when I just think it's just too hard but it has got so much better and it will for you too I'm sure!!

Some of it is developmental too remember and your LO will work out some of this on her own as long as you are consistent and persistent!  When you get really fed up with it, remember 'This too shall pass'

((hugs))