Author Topic: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??  (Read 3285 times)

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Offline sherry lynn

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 17:29:02 pm »
Krissy - Lyle is often the same way, he seems to give me longer nights (sometimes) when he's had the best naps. But for the life of me I can not control those naps. But I'm thinking it might just be connected in a different way like teething or something. He is teething really badly right now and he slept 3 hours yesterday (this almost NEVER happens, I think it's the 3rd time every. And then he slept 11.5 hours last night. Which also very very rarely happens. So that is 14.5 hours. I think he may have done that one other time when he was sick.
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Offline ark

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 18:09:19 pm »
Anytime my DS sleeps really well like that I dread the next day because I'm afraid he IS getting sick and that's why he slept so well.
Andrea

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Offline sherry lynn

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2009, 18:22:19 pm »
Yep!!! So true for me. He was refusing his nap today, which is another sign of teething for us. It seems it's one or the other, great extremes :)
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Offline Krissy18

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2009, 18:54:15 pm »
My son naps anywhere from 1.5-3 hours a day. 3 hours happens when he doesnt sleep well the night before. And the day ends up being close to 14 hours when 3 hours of napping happens. I am really struggling trying to get him on a routine again. It was going pretty good and now its a mess.

Offline NiknLily

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2009, 19:13:44 pm »
thats very interesting, in his book Solve Your Childs Sleep Problems published in 1985 he states the average sleep requirements for a 12m old is 13.75hrs total (2hr 15min total naps) and for an 18m old 13.5hrs total (2hrs total nap)  so was he wrong 24yrs ago or is it just that today a whole lot of LO's don't get the sleep they really need?? personally I'm inclined to think its the latter.

Lily at 1yr was getting a good 14hrs total, but then she always was at the higher end of sleep requirements.  Now at 3yrs she gets 11.5-12hrs with no nap so is much more what I consider average.


Offline lashwish

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2009, 19:28:02 pm »
Im not surprised.
My Ped has always said similar info back when I was complaining about my LOs lack of naps...


Offline clazzat

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2009, 19:36:17 pm »
My 2.5 year old has 14 hours in 24 - and needs to be woken every morning and at the end of every nap!  My 8-month old has about the same...

Offline sherry lynn

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2009, 19:48:16 pm »
Niknlily - I was thinking the same thing. That LO just get a lot less sleep now. Having said that Lyle has, for the most part, been on the lower end of sleep needs, which has driven me crazy. But I do know of some LO who sleep very very little, so those LO would bring the average down.

It think it makes sense (like somebody else said) to have the range be a lot greater.
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Offline lilflav

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2009, 20:21:51 pm »
I did a survey on another board w/ kids all dds age-~15 months and these are the results so far-


Less than 9      0 Votes (0%)
10-11         5 Votes (11%)
11-12         6 Votes (13%)
12-13             18 Votes (38%)
14-15         14 Votes (30%)
15-16         4 Votes (9%)
16+                     0 Votes (0%)


Offline Mimi 2

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2009, 23:10:45 pm »
so was he wrong 24yrs ago or is it just that today a whole lot of LO's don't get the sleep they really need?? personally I'm inclined to think its the latter.


I think it's the latter as well.  I think that it depends on whether or not the baby/child in question is given the opportunity to get as much sleep as possible.  For instance, if a baby is placed in a daycare then the baby is forced to follow the napping schedule of the center or that the baby has to be woken up in the early morning so he/she can be dropped off at the center. 

DD and ds are on the low side of sleep but the amount of sleep they get in total is much more than some of their cousins or friends.  The only common thing about the ones getting less sleep is that both parents work.  I don't want to put the blame on working parents or anything as I went back to work for a year so I know that it was very tough to ensure that dd got the amount of sleep she needed even when it meant that the only interaction I had with her was the 20 min drive to pick her up from my mom's (dh dropped her off in the morning) and 30-45 min in the evening before she went to sleep. 


Like Steffi said, I expected the range to be much wider.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 23:14:23 pm by Mimi 2 »
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Offline becky1969

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2009, 23:42:52 pm »
Just based on my experience here at BW, I'd have to say the BW numbers are much closer to right than Ferber's.  Absolutely there are children who need less than the 'average'. That's why it's an average! Some need less, some need more.  But I think 90% of the moms I work with are able to get their children to sleep the # of hours BW recommends.

And I also think it depends on how you define 'need'.  Can a child appear relatively happy/healthy on less sleep? Many can, yes.  But how is that affecting their development? I certainly can't say, and I'm not sure that Ferber can either.  I have a feeling that a lot of behavioral stuff can be attributed to lack of appropriate sleep and so many parents don't even take that into account. 

I have a guy who still sleeps 14-15 hours at age 3.4, so I may be the wrong person to respond to this post! But as a mod, I've had lots of contact with babies all over the spectrum.  And I can probably count the times on 1 hand where we've concluded the child just needs less sleep than most.  In the majority of cases tweaking the routine gets the child more sleep, and *I* personally believe better health and happiness!  ;D
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 00:29:56 am by becky1969 »
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Offline NiknLily

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2009, 12:29:48 pm »
I agree with you Becky.  I also think its pretty dangerous publishing figures which are so low, even if they are meant to be average.  Say you are just Jo public and have a LO who sleeps even less than his new figures, say by 1-2hrs total a day, you might be fooled into thinking, OH well my kid is low for the average but his sleep isn't as bad as i thought.  Which being a BW, to me is dangerous territory as Like Becky said I beleive good sleep patterns are essential to a LO development.  JMO


Offline lilflav

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Re: Ferbers new sleep averages very low??
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2009, 18:36:32 pm »
Thank you, that is exactly what I was thinking.   Sleep absolutely has an effect on mood, development, health, ect.  Studies show that obesity & add can be linked to too little sleep. Not only that, but we all know that a child that is better rested will be able to fall asleep easier, thus making sleep training less painful.  Many people follow ferber, I wonder what effect this will have?   I suppose that his earlier studies were mostly stay at home moms & his newer studies included a wider variety of people? 



And I also think it depends on how you define 'need'.  Can a child appear relatively happy/healthy on less sleep? Many can, yes.  But how is that affecting their development? I certainly can't say, and I'm not sure that Ferber can either.  I have a feeling that a lot of behavioral stuff can be attributed to lack of appropriate sleep and so many parents don't even take that into account. 

I can attest to this.  I had a chronically ot lo who only napped for 30 min until she was 10 months old.  I think she just got used to the ot & was able to function fine & be happy, but I tell you what a difference I saw in her after I got her nights & naps straightened out! 
Her eyes were wider, she laughed more, played more, and had this spurt in development shortly after getting out of this state.  It is weird w/ the 30 min naps though, after a 30 min she would pop up & be ready to go.  To this day she is way more cranky after a long nap (even after the 2 hr nap the other day) then after a 30 min nap.  Most people & books said "if she seems happy then she must be getting enough sleep".  I was never fooled into thinking that, I just knew something was wrong & her life could be better.  Another thing, bw is the only method that really tries to correct the 30 min naps.  The other books gave some tips on extending, then if you couldn't extend don't worry about it, that must be all they need.  Not once did I read about tweaking routines, which leads me back to the whole ot issue again.