Confused about extending naps

[amymiranda]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some help please.  My lo has just turned 4 months old and she is textbook/spirited.  With some minor hiccups along the way, we’ve followed the BW and established a good routine and now my lo is sleeping through the night most nights, which is great.

My lo is good natured and smiley but is extremely lively and inquisitive – always looking around, loves new things and people etc.  As a result, she is prone to getting over excited, over stimulated and over tired.  She has never been a great sleeper and we’ve always struggled with getting her settled to sleep. 

As her naps were getting shorter, I have moved her onto 3.5 hour EASY with the hope that we can move onto 4 hour EASY soon (we are going on holiday next week so I plan to tackle this when we are back).  So far she has taken the feeds fine and feeding doesn’t seem to be too bad.  But the daytime sleep is unravelling fast.  The 45 minute sleep monster has been bugging us for a number of weeks and last week they started to get even shorter.    Also, I am guilty of letting her get quite sleepy in my arms and then putting her in the cot.  I have tried to lower the activity level, do a good wind down and if I have to go out, go out in the morning.  I’m trying to keep activity time very low key – some time in her baby park and then sitting quietly in her chair with a soft toy, or me walking her around.

So I’ve been trying to rectify both of these – the increasingly short naps and getting her to sleep on her own – via PUPD.  After a few days there has been some improvement which is encouraging (naps are back to 45 mins and the time to settle her in the evenings is much shorter).  However, I have two questions where I need some help as I would love to try and get the naps beyond 45 mins.

I do the wind down and get her settled, then I put her in the cot.  I usually put my hand on her chest and ‘shhh’ for a while.  Sometimes she wakes up but do I leave her to settle herself and only go in to do PUPD when she starts to cry properly (I’ve identified her mantra cry)?  Or should I stay with her until she sleeps but then will she come dependent on me to shh her to sleep?

Another problem is that she has started to roll about which she is very excited about! So much so she is rolling around in the cot a lot and last night quite a bit during the night which is beginning to have an impact on her night time sleeping as she usually winds up on her front unable to turn back over.  Is there anything we can do about this or do we just have to wait until she has got more control over this?

Sorry for the long post.  I would appreciate some advice.  Three weeks after my baby was born we had to move countries to a new city and I know very few people and my friends and family are miles away.  I try to look at the positives and all we’ve achieved so far, but it is hard when I’m constantly in my lo room trying to get her to nap, and can’t have any time to myself, or go out and meet other mums etc.

Thanks a lot. Amy

[Barbaara]

(((Hugs))) sorry you're having such a hard time!  You've come to the right place to get some help!

Could you post your routine so we can have a look at it?  Could be your LO needs more A time.

About the sleeping: ideally you get her calm and settled, put her in the cot and then leave her to fall asleep on her own.  I found that as long my DD isn't fussing or crying, it's best to leave her to it and only intervene when she needs it.  I've never really used PU/PD, but it's my understanding you only do it when LO is really crying.  As soon as LO is mantra crying you put her down and see if she'll settle on her own.

If she doesn't settle on her own, you should always try to settle her in the cot as your aim is to teach her to fall asleep independently in her cot.  You could do ssh/pat or the version you are using if that's working for you.  She might become dependent on you to shh her to sleep, but that's something you can gradually wean her off.  It's something you control and therefore it's not a prop.
If shh/pat doesn't help you do PU/PD.

Regarding the rolling about: there's not much you can do about that besides giving her enough tummy time during the day and trying to show her how she can roll back. 

If you can, try not to obsess too much about the naps and extending them. I know it's hard not to.   I got the dreaded 45 min naps after 3 mo as well and finding the right A times together with W2S is what helped me out the most.  But I was constantly stressing about them, stubbornly trying to extend and ended up spending most of the time in her bedroom.   After some time I decided to go with the flow a little bit more and now I'll only try to extend for 10 min or so.  If I see she's too awake, worked up,... I just get her up and give her a shorter A time before next nap.  That helped me to keep sane!   I'm not saying this is how you should do it though, just make sure you're having fun with her as well.

What city did you move to?  Must be hard to be away from friends and family.

Barbara
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[amymiranda]

Hi Barbara,

Thanks so much for your reply and reassuring words!  We moved to Berlin from the UK just after our daughter was born.  I don’t speak German so some days it can be tough!

We are currently doing 3.5 hour EASY and have done so for a week or so.  We are going on holiday on Saturday which may upset things so I was thinking of not extending the routine to 4 hour EASY until after we get back…but maybe I should.  Here is a typical day:

0700 Wake up, feed
0730 Activity (start winding down around 8ish)
0830 Sleep…if possible!
1030 Feed
1100 Activity/Sleep – we usually go out here for a walk as I have to get out each day to keep me sane so LO sleeps in the buggy for 30-40 minutes usually
2.00 Feed
2.30 Activity (start winding down around 3ish)
3.30 Sleep….
5.30 Feed, then some quiet activity before bath and bed.  I try and get her in bed between 6.30 and 7ish.  Usually takes about 30 mins for her to settle
10.30 Dream feed…usually goes through the night to about 6.30/7ish

Thanks for the clarification on the shhing…I’ll carry on doing that as that seems to settle her down if I put a hand on her chest and shh until she is nodding off.

Good idea about giving her tummy time during the day.  She does do a lot of rolling around in her park but I am just worried about over stimulating her..but maybe it will help with the cot issue.

You’re right about obsessing about the naps!  I think they can easily begin to take over your life..my DH keeps reminding me that we’re doing ok really!  I am just concerned that the lack of sleep during the day may upset the night routine.

Thanks again for your help and would be interested in hearing about what you have to say about our routine.

Amy 

[Barbaara]

Hi,

Your LO just turned 4 months so she's probably ready for some more A time.  A general guideline for A time according to age is:

3 months: 1 hour and 20 - 30 mins
4 months: 1 hour and 45 - 2 hours
5 months: 2 hours - 2.25 hours

Some need more, some need less, but I'm guessing your LO needs more as naps are only 45 min.  You count A time from the moment they wake up until they're asleep again, so feeding, wind down,... included.

You don't mention in your routine how long she's asleep for, but I'm assuming only 45 min?  When you get a short nap like that you need to shorten next A time a bit to prevent OT.

The first nap is probably UT and as you don't adjust next A time you get an OT nap and so on.

Maybe you could post today's routine so far and mention how long she's slept for?  That way it's easier to determine how long your A times were and if they need tweaking.

The lack of sleep may eventually have disrupt nights but let's hope we can sort things out before it gets to that! 

Barbara
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ps: your DH is right, but it's easier said than done! 

[amymiranda]

Hi Barbara,

Thanks for getting back to me again.  Interesting about the activity time – guess it is a fine balance to strike. 

Ok, here is how today has gone.  Actually, I’ve just had some success and my LO slept for 1.5 hours this afternoon – I had to settle her at 45 mins but she went back to sleep easily.  I have finally finished putting thick black card and tape around the windows so the room is really good and dark now.

Ok here goes…

0700 Wake up, feed
0730 Activity, started winding down around 8.10 and she was settled by 8.20ish
0830 Sleep…however, some construction work started (grrr!) and woke her up at 8.50.  She was then wide awake.  Managed to get her back to sleep at around 9.45 until 10.30 (had to wake her). So 45 mins sleep
1030 Feed
1100 Activity.  We went out around 12.00 and she slept for 40 mins in the buggy.  Back home around 1.30 – put her in her chair until 2pm.
2.00 Feed
2.30 Activity started to wind down around 3.10ish and she went to sleep very quickly around 3.20
3.20 Sleep - she stirred at just after 4, I re-settled her and I woke her up at 5.20ish. So 2 hours
5.30 Feed, then some time in the baby park/chair
6.30 Bath, in bed at 7.  Had to go back into her room once to settle her down with shussing and no PUPD (this is a very good day!).  So sleep around 7.15ish.

My DH will do the Dream feed around 10.30.  Sometimes she stirs at some point between 7 and 10.30 but usually it is quite easy to put her back to sleep.  Same goes for any night wakings…although it is harder from 5am onwards (hungry I think).

Thanks again for your help!   

[Barbaara]

You're welcome! 

Too bad for the construction work!

Tomorrow morning I would try to give her a 1h45 A time to see how long she'll nap for. You probably weren't able to get her back to sleep, because she wasn't really tired yet.

And yes, for some LO's it's a very fine balance, guess it depends on your LO's personality.  A friend of mine never watches the clock, doesn't have a clue how long he has to stay awake for to get a good nap, doesn't care if he has a long, short or no nap, as long as her DS sttn.    He sttn since he was 8 weeks old or so and has only woken some nights when he had a really bad cold. Go figure!    But I'm guessing he's a superangel baby.    

Auf Wiedersehen! 

x

[amymiranda]

Hi Barbara,

Well I tried extended her activity time and she napped for 1.5 hours this morning which is great!  So thanks for the help.  I'm going to try and strike the right balance with the activity time throughout the day.

Do you think I should try to get her on 4 hour routine once we're home from holiday?

Thanks again for your advice...it's easy to get over anxious about things when you are in the midst of baby life! 

Amy

[Barbaara]

That's great about the long nap!  I would stick with that A time over the next couple of days.

I know all about being over anxious!

And yes I would start transitioning her to 4h EASY.  I think she'll do better on that routine as it's more suitable for her age.

Enjoy your holiday!    Lucky you!  Are you going abroad or visiting family and friends?

Barbara
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