The fall asleep marathon of an 18 m old, HELP!!!

[Snubu]

I am getting tired of this!

It takes up to 3 hours  to get my 18 m old to sleep in the evening.  Well, usually it is only an hour and a half but sometimes even 3 hours.  His day looks like this

7.30 wake up and breakfast
11 lunch
12-13.30 nap
14 snack
16.30 dinner
19 snack
20 sleep

Although its usually 22 or 22.30 before he finally falls asleep...

It is not OT, im sure, and I have tried shorter naps and changing the nap time to both earlier and later.  Is it possible that an 18 m old just doesnt need the nap anymore?  Sometimes if he only naps for 30 min he is ot in the evening but falls asleep in 15 or 30 minutes.

He doesnt scream and shout, he just wont fall asleep.  I sit on a chair by the bed and talk to him and keep my hand on his shoulder.  When he calms down I take the hand away and maybe even leave the room.  He usually follows me and I have take it all over again.  Usually I then have to stay with him until he falls asleep. Beause taking him back to his bed a hundred times is frustrating!!!  Once he falls asleep he sleep through the night. 

Any advice?

Thanks alot!!!

Snubu

[Peek-a-boo]

There are certainly babies who have unusually low sleep needs and it's possible your LO is one of those.

I notice that you say he follows you out of the room--so he's in a big boy bed?   How long has that been the case? 

This is a very young age to be out of the crib--I'm  just wondering if it's possible that could be part of the issue?

[becky1969]

Are you really super positive that it's not OT? Going to bed at 8 pm after only a 1.5 hour nap is a reallllly long A time for this age group.  That's 6.5 hours!  How are you sure that it's not OT?

[Snubu]

Yes, he is in a big boy bed.  He has been in one for 3 months now.  He hated the crib and started sleeping through the night once I moved him to a big boy bed.  The problem with the big boy bed is that he can get out of it a 100 times but Im not going to put him back to the crib.

Im sure its not OT because he is in a good mood playing and laughing with his sister all evening.  He does not seem tired even at 8 when I put him to bed.  He falls asleep quite quickly when he finally gets tired.  But before that he plays around in his bed with his pillow and blanket and talks to himself.  So basically there is no problem since he is not screaming and shouting but I would be happy to have him asleep at 9 instead of 11...

The last two evenings I have left him in his room and he stays in his bed for a while, quite long actually which Im a bit surprised about.  Maybe I should trust him to fall asleep on his own and leave him by himself.

We never had this problem with our girl.  She had the bottle, which we gave to her in the evening and she fell asleep right after the bottle.  Only took 10 minutes.  They are so different!!!

Snubu

[becky1969]

I wouldn't rule out OT then.  By the time they get to be toddlers, the same OT signs (crying, unhappiness, punchiness) don't always show up.  My son has never shown a single ounce of being tired before bed.  Not once. Not even when he skips a nap.  But believe me, we STILL get NWs if he's OT at bedtime.  I have to go by A time to this day!

I think I'd make bedtime earlier and see if that works.  If nothing else, if he plays in bed then at least he'll fall asleep within his sleep window which will give you a better chance of him sleeping better/longer.  6.5 hours is just so very very long for an 18 month old.  5 hours is more appropriate.  A 6:30 bedtime would be great, or 7 at the latest. 

The other thing I might try, to be honest, is move that nap a bit later.  You've got only 4.5 hours A time BEFORE nap.  That could be why nap is only 90 minutes -- he may not quite be tired enough.  I might move nap to 12:30 and see if that helps him sleep a bit longer.  Worst case he still sleeps 90 minutes but that pushes you out to 2 which makes a 7 pm bedtime workable.


The playing around at bedtime is a CLASSIC OT sign in toddlers.  Totally classic.  I think a bedtime more in keeping with his A time capabilities will cut the playing down a lot, possibly to none! 

[Snubu]

Hi!

Just reporting...

I put him to bed at 7.15 last night.  He was asleep at 9, although it did take an 1.5 again.  BUT, he woke up 6...Now I have to try and keep him awake until 11.30.  Rough day ahead!

But you explain it so convincingly that it might actually be OT after all. 

Snubu

[becky1969]

7:15 probably wasn't early enough.  A lot of times when OT is the problem, moms try an 'early' bedtime which is definitely earlier than before but *still* not within the sleep window.  You were doing 4.5 hours A time before nap, so 4.5-5 hours A time post nap would be within window.  Waking at 1:30 means LATEST bedtime should be is 6:30.  7:15 is 45 minutes later which would definitely be out of the window.  See what I mean?

I think you're going to get there! You definitely got a better sleep, but  9-6 is only 9 hours which is way too little for his age.  I think with a 6:30 bedtime you're going to get at least a 6 am wakeup and maybe even a 6:30 wakeup! Wouldn't THAT be sweet! 

[Snubu]

Oh my good  !!!

Pushing the naps later and letting him nap longer ended up in a disaster.  Now it is 10 or 11 before he falls asleep i the evening! Last night it took him 3 hours! So I will go back to the 1.5 hour nap from 12 to 1.30.  Maybe I just have to accept that he doesnt need so much sleep.  Getting him to sleep at 9 is better than 11 after all...

But I still have the problem with fussing and playing and running out of his room in the evening.  I basically have to sit beside him for him to stay in his bed.  If I leave the room I have to take him back to his bed a 100 times.  Any ideas?  Should I levae him in his room and close the door?  He is a big boy after all, he wont be traumatised if I leave him for a while.  I just dont know how to make him understand tha its sleep time and its not a funny game when he runs laughing out of his room and mummy takes him back.

-Snubu-

[Peek-a-boo]

I would do your wind down, put him down and leave.  Then I'd wait for an "I need you" cry before returning.  Even if he's goofing around, etc, I'd leave him to it as long as he's safe and not distressed.  If he comes out of the room, or bangs on the door, or sounds distressed, I'd basically do a wi/wo type approach:  go to him, gently return him to his bed in as boring a manner as possible (try not to make it rewarding or exciting in either a positive or negative way) and then leave again until there's another "I need you" moment. 

From everything you've written, it does not sound to me like he's overly tired.  It sounds like he has a lower than average sleep needs. 

[Snubu]

Hi!

We are doing a bit better now.  I had to move him to a travel bed because I just couldnt take the running from his room a hundred times.  Now he stands up in the bed and I go in when I hear the I need you scream.  I lay him down, tell him that it is sleep time, stay with him for a while but leave immediately when he starts fussing.  It takes 30 to 45 minutes.

But I still believe that he needs less sleep than most babies because he falls asleep around 20.30, wakes up 7 or 7.30, naps max 2 hours and is pretty happy all day anyway.

-Snubu-

[Peek-a-boo]

Glad things are improving for you!

[becky1969]

He may very well need less sleep!

[Snubu]

We got 5 teeth and are back on track!!!

He falls asleep 20.30 and it takes him 20 to 30 minutes to fall asleep. He sleeps until 7.30!  And naps 12 to14. I am going to start working in august so I have to gradually move his sleep time a bit earlier.  But I dont think it will be a problem.

Now his sister is the problem...I cannot put her to bed at the same time with little brother because they keep each other awake.  So I usually have her watching a dvd or read a book while I put little brother to bed.  But she is way too tired and getting her to bed is one hell of a show with screaming, manipulation and tantrums!!!  Putting  her to bed before little brother is too much for her ego...

She is tired and I know I should get her to bed earlier but I believe she is also testing her limits and processing our divorce in her little head.  Sometimes I just feel so lost with her. I have never divorced before, it is a whole new situation and I do not know what to do!!!

Anyway, any help would be appreciated!

Snubu