EAESH? Attachment parenting to CIO!!!

[ford515]

OK so where do I start!   My daughter was born on Thanksgiving morning and now almost 7 months later she does not have scheudule, does not want to be put down to sleep, wants to be held all day, cosleeps and nurses to sleep at night which is why I am calling her a EAESH (H is for Hold!).  I read the FAQ about starting EASY with a baby over 4 months and still had some questions.  I have tried the pantly gental removal and it just makes everything worse.  My husband has been home with our daughter for 2 months now and when he had to leave her with my sister in law (who has been her normal childcare provider) she screamed the entire time he was gone.  I am going to follow the plan starting Friday morning but I am not sure if I can get off work next week and he starts a new job on monday.  Should I see about my mom coming ot our house to complete the week to make sure it works?  then when she goes to daycare how do you do PUPD?  I admit that we have tried to let her CIO but she ended up trowing up on herself and I cannot do that again to my daughter, I have created this mess and I want to fix it!  Please help me as I am about to give up and she is too precious to give up on.  Any info you may need I will gladly provide as I am not even sure where to go with this.  Thank you Moms for your help!

[anna*]

Have you read up on Pick Up Put Down? It's a really effective tool for weaning props. Nursing to sleep and cosleeping are tough props to wean, but it is totally achievable if you are committed and most of all consistent.

On your specific questions:
I would try to start when you can have a few days clear to concentrate on PUPD. You may not need to take a whole week off work, but if you started on a Friday morning and could be with her until say Wednesday night, that would give her a good start before your husband or mom took over. Once she is settled into a good routine, daycare may not even need to do PUPD.

How much sleep does your daughter usually get in a day? You'd probably both really benefit from being on a more reliable routine (will make it easier for childcare too). At 7 months you would aim for something like this:

E/A: 7am (solids 8am)
S: 9.45am (1.5hrs)
E/A: 11.15am (solids at 12 or 12.30)
S: 2.15pm (1.5-2hrs)
E/A: 3.45pm
S: 7pm asleep

What do you think?

[ford515]

Thank you so much for being so quick!! I have read alot about PUPD and Shush pat.  I took the quiz and she is a Spirited baby.  so I am wondering if Shush pat would be better to use with her? 

She takes 3 naps a day but normally only for 30 minutes at a time if she is not being held.  This then results in her being over tired and then will not go down till about 10 at night.  during the night she will stay asleep for about 4 hour strechs and then will nurse and fall right back to sleep and she even unlactchs on her own to finish falling asleep sometimes.  Sometimes when she starts to wake up I can put my hand on her and she will go back to sleep with out eating.

With the routine you posted when would I feed her last at 3.45 or 7?  then when she wakes up at night when would I feed her? Would I wait 4 hours or not feed her at all?  I think she is nursing more at night for comfort than for food...

I am sorry I am so lost right now and feeling like a horrible parent!! Thanks for your help I cannot and will not make her CIO again....

[anna*]

You are not, not, not a horrible parent!!! (((((hugs)))))      You are a wonderful mommy who just wants her baby to get some quality rest! And you need rest too to be the best parent you can be.

30 mins naps really sounds like overtired, I hope that getting her onto a routine can help her to be better rested! With the routine, the last feed would be right before bed (sorry I missed that E out!)

Shush pat and PUPD aren't really separate techniques, they sort of merge into one another, and you need to find what works for your baby. Here's what I would do:
Work out a little 5 minute wind-down routine that you can use before every nap. Write it down and stick it to the wall in her nursery so that everyone can follow the same steps in the same order. The wind down won't make her drowsy, but it will soon become a cue for her that she'll be going to sleep soon.
Then put her in her crib. Try to use shush-pat in her crib to settle her. You may need to find another variation, like no shushing (sometimes they hate it), or stroking her back instead of patting, or patting her butt, or jiggling the mattress - whatever works. If she gets furious and pushes you away, maybe you would just rest a hand on her back.
If she just gets more upset and shows no sign of settling, pick her up, hold her for just a moment while you say your key sleep phrase (this is the phrase that you will say at every sleep time, something like 'it's time to sleep now darling, mummy's right here), then lay her back down again immediately, even if she's still crying. Then try again to settle her in her crib.
Some spirited LOs can't handle any intervention, and any attempts to help them settle will make them furious, and picking up makes it worse. For them you might just stay with her while she cries. This is NOT the same as CIO, because you are there with her and will help her any way you can.
When she's totally calm, you can start to gradually step away from the crib until eventually she is falling asleep by herself without you in the room.

The nights is a tough one to call. I would probably feed if it longer than 4 hours since her last feed. If it is less than that, resettle back to sleep using PUPD. If she wakes at 3hrs, keep going with PUPD until she sleeps, even if that takes you past the 4 hour mark. Then just feed quickly, quietly, in the dark, at the next waking. I guess I'm saying to decide whether you're feeding or doing PUPD before you go in to her - don't start with one then switch to the other.

I hope all this makes sense!! 

[*Liz*]

Just wanted to drop off some ((hugs)) and support.

It will be tough - but by being consistent you will get through it. When I weaned my DS off his props at 5 mths (walking to sleep and BFing to sleep) I expected it to be terrible, and we had a few rough days but once he worked out what we were doing things changed very quickly.

You are not a horrible parent!

There are lots of ladies here who can provide either advice or support while you get through this.

 

[ford515]

Do you think I should start tonight or in the morning? 

Her normal bedtime routine is bath, pj's in the living room with a little bit of playing on the floor with me, kisses to daddy and brother, books in our bed and then nurse to sleep.  When we are reading goodnight moon she know that nursing is coming and she scoots down to where she is trying to nurse in my lap... How would you adjust this?  do I do a bath, play, nurse, then books?   

Thanks for the info you are making me feel like I can do this.... All I know is that you are right once I start I have to keep to this till she is better.  also When she is playing she does not ever want to play by herself and cries if she  cannot touch us. Do you think this could be because she is tired?  Maybe I shoudl ask this on another board after I fix this one.... I told you we were messed up!

[anna*]

I always start a new way of doing things in the morning: 'new day, new way'. Both of you should get as much rest as you possibly can tonight.

I would keep your wind-down routine for bedtime as it is, but do the books in her room and after nursing take her off the breast as soon as she has stopped actively feeding, have a moments cuddle, then into bed when she's still awake. The wind-down routine for naps could be as simple as : change diaper, close bedroom blinds, sing a song and cuddle and then into bed. Just keep it the same every single time. Same song, same book.

Re the playing, I'd look at the situation again once she's sleeping better. Overtiredness can mess them up in so many baby, you may find she is happier and more confident. For now I would give her as much attention as you can, and you could have her in a sling when you're doing stuff around the house or playing with her brother.

[ford515]

Perfect... thank you so much for the advice and I will be back tomorrow once we have a wonderful day! I have to think positive because I know she will be better for it.  Talk more tommorrow.

[ford515]

So today i going better than I expected, Anna, it has been so nice to have your notes.  this our day so far

A 715
E BF 730 only 5 mins
  solids 815
S started at 915  with nap routine sleeping at 940, she woke up at 1005 and I tried till 1040 to get her back to sleep.  she would not go back done and started to look around the room so I brought her down to play
E BF 1100 only another 10 mintues
   Solid 12
A really fussy and clingy
S  1250 I started her nap routine and 1255 in bed  Sleeping at 1!! 

I am not on the schedule you provided but I thought that she is used to 2 hours A time.  Do you think this is OK?   

Also when she wakes up to extend her nap time I am doing PUPD but she does not seem to understand that it is still time to sleep...

What do you think? 

Thank you so much I am now feeling like I can really do this.

[anna*]

(((hugs))) I know you can do it!

I think she could do with a bit more A time and that will help her to sleep for longer. Most babies are doing 2 hours A time at around 4 months, by 7 months it's getting closer to 3 hours. Remember that A time is all the time they are awake, not just 'activity'. So I'd try increasing it slowly. Give her an extra 15 mins on her morning A time at first, for a couple of days, then another 15 mins on the next A time. Keep an eye on how things go. If she's waking up after a short nap happy and ready to play, that's a pretty good indication that she's actually undertired when she went to sleep.

Just to complicate matters  she'll manage a shorter A time after a short nap. So if she sleeps less than 1.5hrs, I'd keep the next A time to no more than 2.5hrs.

PUPD won't help extend naps if she's undertired. It might if she's overtired. For me, the key to longer naps was always getting the right A time.

How does that sound?

[ford515]

perfect... thanks for the help!