Author Topic: Advice wanted!  (Read 871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bythebook

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 13
  • Location:
Advice wanted!
« on: August 20, 2009, 17:48:52 pm »
Hi All,

I posted this in the night wakings forums but it seems to be a food issue and was hoping someone could help!


My son is a four month old exclusively breast fed baby weighing about 13 lbs, 11 oz (7.6 pounds at birth) who has been sleeping though the night since he has been 7 weeks old.

Fairly recently I have changed his routine from a three to a four hour feeding schedule.  I began to change this when I observed his naps were getting shorter 45 minutes and that he was awake for much longer (sometimes up to two hours without getting cranky).  The new feeding schedule has certainly done wonders for his day time naps- he's being right on schedule sleeping for 2 hours and eating every four. 

My problem is that he began doing early rising a couple of weeks ago in which he was quite obviously hungry- (the times he woke were erratic and his cries could not be soothed any other way, he also takes a full feed and immediately goes back to sleep).  Most recently he is waking anywhere from 3 o'clock to 5 o'clock with the same issue of hunger.  I try to get more food into him during the day but he doesn't seem interested and bobs off  the breast when I try to cluster feed him or feed him for longer.  I tried pumping between feeds in an effort to increase my supply and I have even fed him bottles of breast milk after he bobs off the breast- he takes these extra ozs but still wakes up.  When I do pump I only a couple of ozs.

I looked for evidence that he is ready to start solids but I don't think he is there yet- his weight certainly does not indicate that he needs more than a liquid diet, however, he is good at sitting on his own and will take a spoon without doing the tongue thrust reflex (I tried just for curosity).  I am wondering if I should supplement formula or just leave it-

His EAS routine is almost identical to that outlined in the BW book for a four hour schedule, though he does go to bed for the night at 8 rather than 7- he is just not tired until then.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer help, I don't know what to do!

Offline lpperry

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 9
  • Posts: 294
  • Location:
Re: Advice wanted!
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 21:48:00 pm »
Am I assuming correctly that you do the dreamfeed at 10 or 11?

He may be having a growth spurt.  I would NOT supplement with formula if you want to breastfeed. That is a good way to hurt your supply.  If you supplement with formula, your body is not going to realize he needs the extra milk.

My suggestion is to cluster feed in the evenings until he passes this growth spurt and your milk supply figures it out!

So, for example;  feed at 7am, 11, 3, 7pm, 9pm and 11pm.  This should hopefully get him through the night.



Offline bythebook

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 13
  • Location:
Re: Advice wanted!
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 14:25:12 pm »
Thanks so much, I had tried some cluster feeding but he didn't seem interested but I wondered if it was because my supply had not caught up with his demand yet.

At first I was thinking this was a growth spurt but this does seem to be going on a very long time- almost four weeks since he was doing his early rise and two weeks waking in the middle of the night.

Last night he woke up three times and I don't believe he was hungry (his cries were different) once he woke cuz he rolled over but I'm not sure about the other two times....I feel like he is getting in a bad habit now....uggggh.  I have no idea what to do.

Offline lpperry

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 9
  • Posts: 294
  • Location:
Re: Advice wanted!
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 16:21:35 pm »
If you don't think it is a growth spurt and you don't think he is hungry when he wakes, you are probably going to have to figure something out to help him get back to sleep without nursing.

Can you try shhpat when he wakes in between 3 and 5? Also, in the baby whisperer book there is a chapter on habitual waking.  Do you have the one called "the baby whisperer solves all your problems by teaching you how to ask the right questions?"  Check out page 191.  It talks about doing shhpat or wake to sleep.

Do you swaddle him? Sometimes my little guy gets out of his swaddle and I just need to reswaddle him. 

Offline A pair of Charlies

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 192
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 4025
  • Location:
Re: Advice wanted!
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 21:50:36 pm »
Hi there

Don't worry. It will get better. I was pulling my hair out for a long time - didn't STTN 10m ish. Awful.

Okay. I would drop down from 4 hour feeds for now, feeding more frequently. The focus of EASY is really to make sure your babe is fed regularly, sleeps regularly etc. Not all babes are the same, so 4h intervals at 4 months old can be too big a leap for some. So I would, for now, experiment a little and drop that interval down a touch. Something like feed every 3.5h for a day and see how it goes. If not interested in feeds, push it up a little to, say, 3.45h. Experiment.

Also, are you feeding from both breasts at each feed now? If not, try feeding from both sides before adjusting the feeding routine.

What does this do to your EASY? Mucks it up, yes... For a while EASY can look more like EAESEAES, and the Y can feel really rare! But that's pretty common. Use the EASY as a guideline, and your babes hunger cues as the rule. Tracey never advocated leaving a baby to go hungry - listening carefully and responding to their needs is the essence of baby whispering!

45 mins naps. These can be a OT sign OR an UT sign. Your babe being up over 2h at 4 months sounds familiar in the developmental leap but it's something you need to watch carefully. They can do this for a few days and then get OT building. The trick is to stay a step ahead of their body's needs and development (gets easier with time, promise!). The NWs seems like OT to me, especially now EWs as well. My guess is that hunger may be at play, but likely it's the light sleep (devil) that comes with OT.

Habitual waking - if it's bang on the same time each night, usually habitual. You'll get great advice on this over on NWs from the Goddesses there. And developmental milestones like rolling over are a pain and that can mean we don't celebrate what they've learnt. Best thing is to give them loads of practice with this during their A time - LOADS. Especially teaching them how to roll back again. But, TBH, they've learnt something new and can't help themselves. In a year's time, you'll look back at this and smile. Right now, it's frustrating as hell. I know, I know. My DS couldn't stop himself at every developmental milestone. I'm not sure if it was rocking himself on his hands and knees or learning to stand - whichever it was, I ground my teeth so badly at the time that I fractured my tooth and chunks fell off.  :( 

Those NW - too cold, too warm, too tired (so light sleep), not tired enough, doesn't know how to self soothe, too dark, too quiet, too light, too noisy, hungry, thirsty, bedclothes disturbing them.... and don't rule out teething just yet either. They can disturb sleep long before they come through! You're going to be Miss Marple for a while. We'll be on your team of detectives.

Hunger: at 4 months old it isn't unreasonable for your babe to be hungry. Not at all. I wouldn't expect any BF babe at that age to be STTN (no night feeds) and view those that do as the exception rather than the rule. I think we stopped night feeds at 5 / 6 months (when DS was ready and able to go through the night, not when I was ready). Your babe is growing and developing - that is their job. The aim, IMO, would be to get enough feeds in to encourage them to be able to sleep one long interval at night. Say 11pm until 4pm or so. Then feed and not again until the set wake up time for the day. Then, you eek out that early morning feed, pushing it a little later / making the feed shorter. The idea is to help their bodies realise that it's sleep time and to sleep the long period then - from 11pm to 7am.

BUT not all can do this for a while. And lots wake up at night for reasons other than hunger (my DS for example). And lots of babies have more unsettled nights when they have a DF, rather than no DF. They wake from hunger then go back to sleep rather than lots of wake-ups because they're lightly sleeping.

It gets better.  :-*

Charlotte

Offline bythebook

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 13
  • Location:
Re: Advice wanted!
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 15:53:56 pm »
Oh wow, thanks so much for the advice it is so nice not to feel alone.  I do have the second book and considered habitual wakings but he never wakes at the same time so i ruled that out.  We have had a heat wave these past two weeks and also thought that might be an issue.  He slept pretty much through last night and got up at 5:30am I was in a zombie state and responded too early I think- he was babbling not crying.  I also thought about teething as well, lots of drooling and gnawing so he could be a little bothered.

I think I will try a 3.5 schedule, it really seems that his whole problem started when I switched his routine to a four hour.  I just hope he doesn't start enjoying the breast at 3 am! Thanks again.