Help - desperately trying to overcome NO napping in 7 week twins!!

[AmberElise]

Our lives are sucking big time right now... my boys (7 weeks corrected tomorrow - chrono age 12 weeks) have decided they no longer need any (and I do mean ANY) sleep during the day. We have tried all possible combinations of AP, shhpat, (even pu/pd) AND (I hate to admit this on this site) letting them just cry for a while, short wind-down, long wind-down, no wind-down.... From birth they slept really well... at about 38 weeks corrected they started on EASY and seemed to adapt to a 3 hour schedule without too much fuss. We were able to drop one night feed and they now get a df at 11pm and then sleep til 4-5am. Nights are fantastic - very seldom get wake-ups and they are able to easily put themselves back to sleep.

Problems started about three weeks ago when Dylan (twin B) started waking 20-30 min into his naps... he's become gradually more and more difficult to get back to sleep to the point now where he isn't even sleeping the 20-30 min - he's just crying the minute we lay him down. He wakes Tyler and so they both end up with crummy naps and now it's to the point that by the end of the day they are so OT that they aren't breastfeeding well - involves a lot of cycles of sucking a few gulps alternating with screaming and Mommy in tears most of the time.

Sleep is so important for these little guys and I just don't know how to help them get it anymore!!!

sobsss....

[*Jo*]

Oh hun, im so sorry things are rough for you at the moment, i can only imagine how difficult it is with twins. lets try and see if we can help you out here

you say that Dylan started waking 20-30mins into naps, this is usually a sign that he has had too much A time before the nap and is OT. however before we go there could you answer a few more questions:

* is it possible they have reflux?
* do you swaddle, have white noise, room darkened?
* do you use a paci?
* any medical issues?
* do you raise the mattress of the cot slightly?
* do they sleep in their cots?

Ok, first of all, dont beat yourself up about doing CIO, you are trying to do the best you can do here. but i do encourage you not to do it again, it will only make things worse in the long run. CIO is not even recommended by the "experts" until 6 months old. also Tracy advises not to do Pu/Pd as its not meant for babies under 4 months old, its too stimulating for them and will only work them up more.

are you able to tell me how your day goes at the moment in some sort of EASY format? more specifically how long they are awake before you attempt to put them to bed

Please also remember we will be using their corrected age for A times etc so we will be working with a routine for 7 week old babies

[AmberElise]

Hi Jo,

Tyler & Dylan do have reflux and are on zantac - it helps for sure - although they still spit up a lot, they don't cry before spitting anymore. They are otherwise healthy and growing well. They are swaddled, put into their cribs with the shades drawn in their room for naps and with their pacifiers (they both like them). I have a humidifier going in their room, which provides some white noise. I originally thought it was because they are OT (they are by the end of the day for sure!) but they are only awake for 45 min to an hour depending on their feed. They are very fast feeders (except when they're fussing during the feed).

Our easy is
7:30 - E
7:45 - A (includes diaper change and morning wash) - they are at their best for this A time as they've almost always had a fantastic night
8:30 - S - they might sleep here for a bit, but more often then not they start crying when I put them in the cribs; they don't cry straight through, as we are in and out every few min to soothe and replace pacifiers (which stops they crying until they wake again after spitting it out)
11:30 - E - the E's get longer as they start getting more fussy
12:00 - A
12:15 or 12:30 - depending on how the feed has gone - "S" - this nap they have slept through twice in the last week, but the other days have been much like the S above
2:30 - E
3:00 - A
3:30 - S as above
5:30 - E
6:00 - A usually very brief at this point - mostly involves a lot of cuddling to try to settle them down as they are crying a lot by now
6:15 - 6:30 - S - we try to get them to cat nap for at least an hour and end up feeding them again at 7:30
7:30 - snack
8:00 - bedtime routine (bath, jammies, snuggle)
8:30 - S - they usually fall asleep here after ~10 min or so of fussing
11pm - DF
sleep through til 3:30 or 4 am (sometimes 5am) - E
sleep through til 7:30

I just don't know what to try any more!!

[*Jo*]

Ok first of all, your first feeding time is too far apart, it should only be 3 hours apart but you have it at four hours here. also if they dont sleep at their first nap, then get them up, feed them and try them again after about 30mins. for their age they should only be up for a max of 1 hour 15mins and thats after a full nap.
so if they wake at 7.30am, feed them and change etc, have them back into their beds ready to fall asleep by 8.20am which gives them time enough to settle down. start your wind down at 8.10am and have them placed in their beds at 8.20-8.25am which gives them enough time to fall asleep on their own (or using shhpat) by 8.30-8.40am. if they do a full two hour sleep then wake them up by 10.30and feed again and repeat.

do you think you could try something like that? it may just take a bit of playing around to see what works for them

[AmberElise]

Sorry Jo, I meant to put 10:30 there (they are on a 3 hour easy - the only time they go longer is at night...). Today they fed at 11:30 because they slept in until 8:30 (happens sometimes and we just shift the whole day to match with the three hour easy). We try to put them down when we see the first hint of slowing in their activity - I've found that if we wait til the first yawns it's game over and we end up with very cranky babies...

[my3girlsjde]

*hugs*

We went through a lot of the same with our girls, and they were reflux babies as well. I don't have much to offer but hugs and I hope things get resolved for you soon DO take lots of pics though - even when they're crying, because there's something so special about twins. But I'm sure you know that already

Vicki

[AmberElise]

Thanks Vicki! I appreciate your thoughts Things are up and down - they have good days too! The past few days have been a bit better - I started waking them a bit earlier in the am and for whatever reason keeping the blinds partly open during the day so it isn't completely dark in their room seems to make them happier at nap time! We are also just learning to accept the fact that Dylan is a bit of a catnapper - it may just be his nature - so I've started just getting him up if he is just wide wide awake and there is a whole lot less crying going on! It just means Mummy has a baby to pack around while she cleans house etc.

[Lissybits]

Just wanted to send some BIG hugs to you
You're doing a fantastic job - and remember as time goes by things will get easier and all this will be a distant memory!!
 

[AmberElise]

Thanks gang for the support - we were having a bad day that day - but things are looking up! I "reset" their clocks midweek, by getting them up at the "new" 7am (we just moved to daylight savings time here in Alberta) and that totally worked with resetting their naps! Suddenly it hasn't been such a struggle - although they still don't follow the 3 hour EASY exactly, we are learning to manage - sometimes one of them will have an AEA(short)SY if he just doesn't want to sleep anymore. I love it because it gives me a chance to spend some good one-on-one time with them (which I'm counting as part of my Y!).

Yesterday was a bit messed up as the photographer came to our house to do a photo session for Christmas - they missed an entire nap (Tyler did anyhow, Dylan managed to get about 20 min of sleep before he came). Even though it made them really overtired, both boys went down for their next nap without a single fuss or cry! In the last few days, I've noticed that they seem more comfortable spending some awake time in their cribs before they fall asleep - they seem to be happier if we put them down in an almost wide awake state, before they've even let out the first yawn! My guess is that if we wait that long, it's too late...

Vicki good luck with your pregnancy! You are a brave lady expecting another with small twins already I have a good friend who's baby was born the same time as my guys and she has 2.5 year old twins - supermom!!

[my3girlsjde]

Thanks We decided to 'get it done' lol.  Either that or we're really crazy lol. I love time changes for fixing schedules. Mine always seem to slip a week or two just before Daylight savings time kicks in.

One-on-one time is so precious. It really gives you the chance to see what it's like 'just to have one' and get to know them as individuals.

Our girls are the same with going to bed. There has never really been a wind down for them. That's when the EASY came so handy because we would look at the clock and put them down without waiting for the cues. 9 times out of 10 there was little to no issue I really hope the same for you.