is it ok to give a short feed before nap

[mjjm]

Hi,
my lo is 12 wks old and have been struggling with her daytime naps for a long time, though I'm seeing some slow progress.  She's been on a flexible 3hr EASY.  However, for the past 2wks or so she's been less interested in eating a full feed and sometimes will not want to eat in the morning @ 7ish if she's had a feed @ 5am.  my question is if I think she hasn't eaten enough in her regular feed periods, is it alright to top her up before her nap so as to make sure that she's not hungry during nap time or is this going to create a snacking problem?  she'll get sleepy but I always make sure that she's not falling asleep during the feed and that she's down in her crib awake.
thanks for your input.

[anna*]

On the whole i'd say it's best to encourage her to take a full feed at the proper times. If she takes a small feed at breakfast, and goes down for a nap, she should be hungry to take a full feed when she wakes up. That's preferable than doing several smaller feeds during a day which may mean you end up with a 'snacker'. If you do really need to top up, I would make sure it's as far from the nap as possible, at least 10 mins awake time between the end of the feed and nap time.

[mjjm]

thanks Anna, yeah I thought it might not be a good idea!!!
do you think maybe she could be ready for 3.5hr EASY?
Also, I've been reviewing on the sleep needs per age group and for 1-3 month, it should be 2 naps of 1.5 hr ea & 8 hrs @ night (p. 214 or the 1st book).  does that incl the catnap?  if you're on 3hr EASY then there're 4 sleep cycles from 7-7, is there going to be a cycle when there's no sleep?  And if night is ~ 8 hrs, then would night period from 7-7 be too long?  Sorry for all the questions but I'm just a little confused.  I've been only on a flexible 3 hr EASY, ie I don't wake her up in the morning and just start the 3 hr cycle when she wakes.  I'm not sure whether that's correct and needs some help on fine tunning her schedule as she's approaching 3 month.
thanks for your help!

[donna_issabella]

It is a valid concern to worry re your LO becoming a snacker. Does your LO wake up early from her naps hungry?

Here is an interview / help that Tracy had given one of our current members. we followed this for a while, giving a small top up of milk prior to naps for a week or so, helped a graet deal getting Henry through nap issues. Ideally encourage LO to take full feeds, but there is a time and a place for a top up prior to naps, like when baby is going through a growth spurt etc.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

Good luck, hope it helps you as much as me when my son was young!

[anna*]

She is probably still a bit young for a 3.5hr EASY, you would normally start to transition around 4 months. Does she feed well when it has been 3 hrs since her last feed?

The way the sleep needs are expressed is confusing. At 3 months, most are having 3 x 1.5hr naps plus a catnap. And 12 hours at night including (we hope) an 8 hour stretch, not 8 hrs total! The way it is written seems as though they would have 3 hrs of day sleep and 8 hrs at night which is only 11 hrs total out of 24!! Not nearly enough!!

At this stage I would start to wake her at the same time every morning so that your days start to look a bit the same, and aim for a bedtime at around the same time too. As a guide, a 'perfect' 3 month EASY routine might go like this:

E/A: 7am
S: 8.30am
E/A: 10am
S: 11.30am
E/A: 1pm
S: 2.30pm
E/A: 4pm
S: 5.30pm catnap
A: 6pm, bath, bedtime routine, last E
S: 7pm asleep for the night
E: 10.30pm dreamfeed
1 or 2 x night feeds.

thanks Anna, yeah I thought it might not be a good idea!!!
do you think maybe she could be ready for 3.5hr EASY?
Also, I've been reviewing on the sleep needs per age group and for 1-3 month, it should be 2 naps of 1.5 hr ea & 8 hrs @ night (p. 214 or the 1st book).  does that incl the catnap?  if you're on 3hr EASY then there're 4 sleep cycles from 7-7, is there going to be a cycle when there's no sleep?  And if night is ~ 8 hrs, then would night period from 7-7 be too long?  Sorry for all the questions but I'm just a little confused.  I've been only on a flexible 3 hr EASY, ie I don't wake her up in the morning and just start the 3 hr cycle when she wakes.  I'm not sure whether that's correct and needs some help on fine tunning her schedule as she's approaching 3 month.
thanks for your help!

[mjjm]

thanks for your reply, ladies.  Unfortunately, I've tried different A time and extending her and giving her a sm feed before naps...she still couldn't transition from light to deep sleep on her own.  I'm becoming to think that this is more of a habit now.  I've tried wake to sleep as well but nothing seems to be working!!!  She gets lots of jolts and that's what's waking her and upsetting her.  I'm going to try putting her on her stomach and see if that might help.
thanks Anna for clarifying the sleep needs and EASY for 3 mos old.  just to clarify further, how strict would you need to be in terms of time?  ie could you allow ~ 30' flexibility? ie wake btw 6:30 - 7:30am? sometimes if she's had a rough night and end up sleeping in a bit in the morning, should I let her of still wake her in time?  if I have to wake her in time, would she then be too tired to stay up for 1 hr 20', should I then put her to nap earlier?

[anna*]

Transitioning between sleep cycles is partly learned and partly developmental - I know it's stressful but try not to get too upset about it, it will come. Extend naps where you can, but where you can't just give lots of short naps and do the occasional AP nap (ie in a sling, car, pram) so she doesn't get overtired. Stomach sleeping might help her get through the jolts, or alternatively a good tight swaddle (obviously not both!).

Around 3 months I'd say it's a good idea to start waking her at the same time each day so that you have a bit of consistency. Also remember, if her naps are short, she'll need less awake time before the next nap.

[mjjm]

most of the time I can extend her naps but only if I stay with her and keep patting her.  the moment I stop or leave the room, she wakes in ~ 5-10'.  I've been helping her with this for a long time and there's no improvement.  So it's alright to give her lots of short naps throughout the day if I'm unable to extend her naps?  the reason I'm asking this is because I also have a toddler.  Currently my mom's around to help out but only for another month or so.  Once she's not around, I won't be able to stay in her room like this anymore.  Do you think doing pu/pd would help her learn?

as for the same wake up time, if she's had a rough night, should I still wake her or let her sleep in a bit to catch up some rest?  I'm just concern that she would then be too overtired to take a decent nap.  (although none of her naps are decent at this point...lol)

thanks for your help!

[anna*]

A large part of longer naps is developmental. So it may be that she never sleeps longer until she's a bit older. Obviously anything you can do to help her will be worth it as it will help keep her from OT, but it's not something to get stressed about. Lots of short naps is OK if that's the only way for her to get enough sleep in the day.

PUPD isn't great for extending naps, although it's worth a try once she's 4 months old. The key is usually A time. Did you try tummy sleeping or swaddling?

[mjjm]

she's always been swaddled, her arms are tightly wraped but her legs loose and it's usu the legs that jump the most.  Is there a type of swaddling method you'd recom?
stomoach sleeping didn't make a difference, her whole body still jerks into the mattress, waking her.  do the jolts get better with age too?  Hers seem pretty big...is there a reason why?!

I'll con't to try to play around with A time and see if that helps her.

[anna*]

Overtiredness can give bigger jolts, if the routine above isn't suiting her you can try cutting the A time back by 10 mins to see if that helps.

I don't know of a specific swaddle that will control the legs, but how about putting a light sheet over top of her and tucking it in tightly all around?