6-month old needs more sleep...please help!

[elismommy]

Hello!  New mommy here!    

I have an almost six-month-old son who had never been on any sort of a schedule and was the victim of accidental parenting for the first five months of his little life.  Then I found the Baby Whisperer….

So, after implementing EASY three weeks ago, I’ve been lurking the forum and trying to figure this out on my own, but am finally stepping in to say, “HELP!”  Although things are much improved over not having a schedule at all, we are still struggling with a few things, so I figure there must be something I’m not doing right!  My son typically has SHORT NAPS (30 – 40 minutes), EARLY MORNING WAKE TIMES (usually 5:30ish, but it was 4:40 this morning!), but sleeps pretty well at night, with maybe one middle-of-the-night wakening.  So, I’m getting really confused as to how to remedy this short nap business and get him some good sleep during the day and longer sleep at night! 

What’s really confusing me is the A-time.  I really am clueless how long exactly to make these times when his naps are so short AND when he wakes so early in the morning.  I’m sure my not knowing is what’s contributing to these problems and our crazy, messed-up schedule! 

Here is an example of one of our short-nap days (he has had a handful of great days with longer naps, but they’re in the minority):

5:30 A (I left him in crib and tried shhhhh to see if he’d go back to sleep – NOPE)
5:50 E
6:10 A
7:35 S
8:05 A
9:15 E
9:35 S
10:20 A
12:25 S
1:00 A
1:30 E
1:45 A
3:45 S (in a carseat)
4:10 A
5:10 E
5:30 A (including bedtime routine)
6:45 S


As you can see, I’m floundering and it’s all over the place.  I have no idea how long to keep him up after a short nap and have just been trying to read his sleepy cues and keep feeding every four hours or so. 

As far as the naps are concerned, I have tried going in to hold his jolts and/or covering his eyes, but the little guy will just pop open his eyes and he’s AWAKE.  I’ve also tried just letting him be and staying out of the room and see if he can put himself back to sleep.  Nothing I’ve tried will get him to go back to sleep, and it usually involves a lot of crying, so I usually just get him up and we start A time all over.  I can tell this cycle is causing him to be really overtired, and then I get stressed out because I know it’s just getting worse and worse the less he sleeps!  ARGHH!

Overall, though, the routine has done wonders in helping him sleep better, and he’s a generally happy (textbook?) baby (aside from some reflux issues, which we are trying to manage with a naturopath).  I think I just need some guidance on the schedule and tweaking it so that we can break this cycle!

One other thing….we just started solids yesterday (the schedule above is from the day before that), so I need to figure out how to work that into the schedule, too.  Where is the best time to fit that in around breastfeeding?  Before?  After?  How much time in between?

Any help much appreciated!  

THANKS!

[~Sara~]

Hi hon   I'm glad that you've seen an encouraging improvement in your LO after starting BW, and I'm glad that you've come for help (lol, we LOOOVE to help here).

So, you're right...I think it's his A times, too, that are the cause of all of this.

It sounds like you'd like to work on getting his A times sorted out and the EWs.  We're going to need to tackle the A times first, and then--if we're lucky--the EWs might go away on their own.  Or if not, then knowing that his day is how it needs to be, we can then start working on getting rid of the EWs.

At his age, most LOs are doing about this for their A times:
Late 5 months/early 6 months 2.25-2.5 hours
(Original source here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652)

Granted, some babies are doing a bit more, some a bit less; and A times can vary during the day.  But, they're normally fairly consistent.

When LOs are doing the 2h15 A time, this is what a typical day looks like:

Awake at 7
E: 7:30
A:
S: 9:15 (1.5h nap)
A: 10:45
E: 11:30
A:
S: 1 (1.5h nap)
A: 2:30
E: 3:30
A:
S: 4:45 (30 minute catnap)
A: 5:15...do E and bedtime routine
S: asleep no later than 7:30
***Note: Naps should not last more than 2 hours each, and try to not let the catnap go longer than 40 minutes.  Just adjust the times as needed.

Here is a typical day with 2h30 A times:

Awake 7
E: 7:30
A:
S: 9:30 (1.5h nap)
A: 11
E: 11:30
A:
S: 1:30 (1.5h nap)
A: 3
E: 3:30
A:
S: 5:30 (30 minute catnap)
A: 6...feed and bedtime routine
S: asleep by 8ish
***Note: By the time your LO is getting to 2.5h A times, the catnap gets harder and harder to do without going to a 13h day.  This is our routine, roughly.  Your LO might need a 12h night, so you can adjust the catnap so that it's early enough that he's not going to be UT.  Once your LO can do 3-3h15 A times, he can drop the catnap.

Overall, his day is on the long side, so we'll need to take that into consideration as well.

Do you know how long he normally sleeps at night (does he like 12 hours, 11 hours)?  Do you know how much daytime sleep he likes to get?  I know it's hard to tell right now what with the short naps and EWs, but any extra info is good, right?

So, where do we go from here?

First thing I would try to do tomorrow is to still try and extend his wake-up time.  Have you tried wake to sleep for that?  If not, try it about 1 hour before he normally wakes up.  If he still wakes up, try the shh/pat for a bit and see how he does.  Couldn't hurt at this point.  If he goes back to sleep, great.  Start A time when he wakes up.  If not, start the A time then. 

Second, you'll want to gently extend his first A time to about 2h10-2h15.  Somewhere in there.  If you'd like, go with the 2h10 A time.  See what kind of nap he gives you based on that.  Keep his A times consistent throughout the day.  After 2-3 days, see how he's napping, and if you think you're getting UT naps, increase by 5-10 minutes until you find what works best for him.

Third, if he wakes up early from his nap, do not get him up.  Try to extend his nap with shh/pat or PU/PD (don't know if you've used this) for the rest of his nap time.  Keep him in his room.  Keep trying the httj and covering his eyes.  When are you going in to do this?  I recommend the 30 minute mark.

If he doesn't go back to sleep after waking up early, you'll have to cut back a bit on his A time.  By how much depends on your LO.  Some moms have to cut back quite a bit.  Personally, DS refuses to go down any earlier than 15 minutes sooner.  You'll just have to get to know your LO's preferences here.

Fourth, you'll need to make sure that your wind down routine is consistent.  What does yours look like?  When do you start it?  Do you use shh/pat?  Also, how dark is his room?  Do you use a swaddle, a pacifier, or white noise?

Fifth, make sure that overstimulation isn't a culprit of the short naps.  A good rule of thumb is to keep the last 30-45 minutes of A time low-key. 

So there are the main points that I think we should go with for right now.  What do you think about that plan of attack?

Re: the solids.  We've just started ourselves and are still only doing one solids meal a day...so I don't know how much help I'll be.  We do bottle first at ~7:30, then we do 2-3 teaspoons of pear at 8:30--so 1 hour later.  But, that typically is the norm: bf/bottle first, then solids 1 hour later.  Our ped said to start with one meal a day, then go to 2 (one in the AM, one at dinner time).  The PM meal will be about 1 hour before the last feed.

If you're left with questions about that, have you tied looking on the Solids board/FAQ?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=14.0

HTH!

[Yazzie]

Hey there,

Am having similar problem with my almost 6 months lo....& we seem to be really struggling with extending our A times.!..love the advice on here..

Re solids, we are on one meal per day & that's usually 45mins~1hr after 1st feed.

Keep us posted as to what happens..

Cheers,
Adam's Mom

[elismommy]

Thanks so much for your reply!  I appreciate all the help I can get….

Let me try and answer some of your questions!  As far as how much sleep he usually gets at night….it’s usually no more than 11, if we’re lucky.  He is usually asleep by 7:00 pm, so it’s been more like 10.5 a night.  I have no idea how much time he needs in the day….still figuring this sleep thing out! 

The wind down routine for naps is pretty short and simple.  I usually hold him while we make the room dark, I put on static (need all the white noise we can get with a dog, cat, and two birds in the house!), and hum him a lullaby while I walk him around a bit until he’s drowsy.  Then I put him in his crib.  We usually do this about 20 minutes before he’s supposed to be asleep.  BUT….yesterday morning when I put him in his crib, he sat in there and played and cooed for over an hour, then started fussing and then crying.  (After a diaper change and basically starting over, he then went to sleep quickly.)  So, do I count his crib time as A time?  Is this an example of him being undertired when being put down?  He did sleep for an hour and a half (oh joy!) and woke up happy.  Yesterday afternoon went much differently….when I put him down he was happy for about 10 minutes, then started fussing fairly quickly and then escalated into a CRY.  This went on for almost an hour.  I could tell he was tired and fighting sleep.  So, I guess I get confused as to when to start the wind down with him, as it can go either way…sometimes he’s asleep in 10 minutes, sometimes it’s an hour and a half!

No pacifier (he’s found his fingers and sucks on those), no swaddling (he was kicking that off at two months), and I do try to watch the overstimulation.  I have to admit, the room could probably be darker….we’ve had a time trying to get it dark, as we have lots of bright, sunny windows with blinds, but no curtains!  We’ve got blankets strung up, but I think we need to get some darker ones!

I had a rough time this morning figuring out when to start his A time.  He was awake at 5:00 am and my husband tried for half hour to get him back to sleep, but he was hungry.  We have done PU/PD, but I think it makes him more upset (and he’s a reflux baby, so I don’t like to jostle him too much).  I have also tried shhh/pat, but mostly end up doing just the shhhh part if he’s in his crib and upset; he rolls around a lot and I can’t always get to his back, so I just lay my hand on his tummy.  Anyway, this is what my husband did for half an hour this morning, to no avail.  So I fed him.  I worry about him getting enough calories because he’s a big boy (20 lbs), so I hate to put him off if he’s hungry!  Anyway, he ate well, and seemed sleepy, so I put him down again and he went to sleep….for only 20 minutes.  Then he was just up and happy.  We left him in his crib for another half hour until he started fussing and we just got him up.  So, after all that, my question is, when does the A time start?  From his initial waking or after the 20 minute, doesn’t-really-count nap?  So, needless to say, the day started out messy again! 

So, a few more questions:  if he’s woken up early from a nap and is just hanging out in his crib (like he is right now), do I just let him hang out until he fusses and then try to help him get back to sleep?  And if I spend the whole nap time trying to get him back to sleep, but he doesn’t, A time would start when he initially woke up, right?  And if that’s the case, then the whole schedule moves up and we’re left with a really long day again….and if that’s the case, should I put him to bed earlier? 

I’ll keep trying for the 2 hr 15 min A times today in the midst of the madness!  One more question….how can I tell a UT nap from an OT nap? 

Sorry, for the really long post…just trying to sort things out!  Thanks so much for all the help!  It’s much appreciated!

[~Sara~]

As far as how much sleep he usually gets at night….it’s usually no more than 11, if we’re lucky.  He is usually asleep by 7:00 pm, so it’s been more like 10.5 a night.  I have no idea how much time he needs in the day….still figuring this sleep thing out!

He might be on the lower end of sleep needs.  Have you looked at this before:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85130.0

BUT….yesterday morning when I put him in his crib, he sat in there and played and cooed for over an hour, then started fussing and then crying.  (After a diaper change and basically starting over, he then went to sleep quickly.)  So, do I count his crib time as A time?  Is this an example of him being undertired when being put down?

Yes, the crib time was part of his A time.  A time is eyes open to eyes shut, and I think of it as simply Awake time rather than Activity time.

Since he took such a great nap after this and woke up very happy, I would say that he was UT.  Buuuut, I can't be sure.  How long was he awake before he went to sleep?  If it was way over the average A time, then he might have been OT, but just took a nice, long nap afterward.

So, I guess I get confused as to when to start the wind down with him, as it can go either way…sometimes he’s asleep in 10 minutes, sometimes it’s an hour and a half!

This knowledge will come with practice.  From how you described your wind down routine, what you do sounds great.  Maybe the timing is a bit off, maybe he needs a shorter wind down and then off to bed!  Perhaps try to make the wind down only 15 minutes tomorrow and see how he does.

The 10 minutes to go to sleep is probably when you've hit the nail on the head with timing.  The hour and a half could go either way: UT or OT.  It's hard to tell without seeing what he was doing and his A time leading up to that.

I have to admit, the room could probably be darker….we’ve had a time trying to get it dark, as we have lots of bright, sunny windows with blinds, but no curtains!  We’ve got blankets strung up, but I think we need to get some darker ones!

Know how that goes.  We taped poster board onto the window and then put tin foil over that (the poster board is more to make it look nice on the outside of the window).  Now, it's like a cave in DS's room.  Just something to consider; plus it's fairly cheap and is covered up by the blinds.

So, after all that, my question is, when does the A time start?  From his initial waking or after the 20 minute, doesn’t-really-count nap?

Personally, I'd start A time from after the 20 minute pseudo-nap, especially since he was happy and seemed to really want to start his day after that.  I'm just a bit stricter about NWs and EWs and trying to discourage them...it's your choice though.  Just watch to see when he starts looking sleepy, which I know is what we're working on and all.  But, again, that's just how I would do it so as not to keep encouraging the EWs.

I worry about him getting enough calories because he’s a big boy (20 lbs), so I hate to put him off if he’s hungry!

Is he on solids yet?  Has he gone through his 6 month GS?  Just somethings to consider as it might affect everything.  His EWs could be that he's just way too hungry to sleep any longer, but that he really, really DOES want to sleep.

if he’s woken up early from a nap and is just hanging out in his crib (like he is right now), do I just let him hang out until he fusses and then try to help him get back to sleep?

Hmm, this is tricky.  At his age, I'd let him stay in there until he fusses, just to see if he can self-soothe back to sleep.  It's a skill that he'll need to learn.  When he cries, then go in and work on extending.

If you notice that he stays awake from the rest of the naptime, you'll have to shorten the next A time so as to allow him to catch up on sleep.  If, however, he does that for EVERY nap, start doing the shh/pat when he wakes.  Also, reconsider A times if it's a habit and/or try holding through the jolts or wake to sleep (have you read about those?).  It's really about just figuring out your LO.

And if I spend the whole nap time trying to get him back to sleep, but he doesn’t, A time would start when he initially woke up, right?  And if that’s the case, then the whole schedule moves up and we’re left with a really long day again….and if that’s the case, should I put him to bed earlier?

Yes, A time would be from when he woke up.  Yes, the routine gets off...but I would try fitting in an extra catnap to avoid going to bed early.  He's already having EWs, and if he's an 11 hour sleeper on a good night, then early bedtimes normally don't work.  They could, though...sorry to be so ambiguous...but again, this is very dependent on how your LO is.

how can I tell a UT nap from an OT nap?

Here's a good little topic for that:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=160166.0

One last question (sorry for the novel of a response): Is your son's reflux under control, meaning, do you think that his short naps could in any way be caused by pain from his reflux??

[ctroster]

I just wanted to say thank you! This thread was most helpful, I was going through the exact same thing with my 6 month old and reading this decided to try shortening her A times, and shorten I did, she is down to 90 minutes but oh my gosh, the naps!  And the no waking up screaming! And the pleasant demeanor from a textbook baby all day and all evening long again!