Author Topic: up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?  (Read 1646 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rach77

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 88
  • My Boys hanging out!
  • Location: Sydney Australia
up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?
« on: January 21, 2010, 21:31:07 pm »
My 15 week old DS is not playing ball! He is on a 3 hourly schedule still as he is STILL not STTN - we've had some ups (where he'd sleep from 7pm - 5am) but then at the moment it's a nightmare - he's waking two to three times at night for the last 3 nights. I'm hoping it's a GS but I have this sick feeling in my tummy it's not! I increased all his feeds yesterday by a good couple of ounces but he still drank a ridiculous amount last night! OHHH I'm so tired today!

Anyway, my question is, for his forth nap of the day he wakes up around 5.30pm EVERYDAY. I know it's a common thing for babies to just have a short nap for their final nap, however how do I then manage the feed. Normally dinner as at 6.30 so he is in bed for 7. but if he wakes at 5.30 that means leaving him up for an hour when he is overtired and struggles to get to sleep (normally he is excellent at nodding himself off). however if I feed at 5.30pm when he wakes, then he is tired for 6pm and in bed by 6.15pm at the latest... will that mean he will introduce some form of MOTN feed? DF does not work for him, every time he has a df he wakes around 1am - 2am then again at 4am. If I don't do a df he has one MOTN feed sometimes as late as 5.30am.
TIA ladies!


Offline ~Sara~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 264
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 9268
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 04:29:08 am »
Hi hon :) Would you post what your LO's day looked like for today?  I'm just having trouble seeing the flow of his day, so if you could put it in the EAS format, that would be great.  I don't meant to post an ideal day, but what he actually did, labeling with E, A, and S.
*formerly tersaseda*

 




Offline rach77

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 88
  • My Boys hanging out!
  • Location: Sydney Australia
Re: up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 07:52:07 am »
Sure - today was a remarkable day... so I am very much hoping the night will follow!
E - 5.30 (not great, but was awake a lot last night, I hoped he would have gone back to sleep but e didn't)
A - 5.45
S - 6.35

E - 9 (I let him sleep that extra 30 min to get back on a more normal time frame - had to wake him)
A - 9.15
S 10.05

E - 12 noon (I had to wake him again)
A - 12.15
S - 12.55

E - 3 (he woke by himself)
A - 3.20 (he did not eat alot for this feed)
S - 3.50 (didn't got down too well either)

E - 5.45 (arm was out of wrap - I held it for 10 more minutes and he slept well)
A - 6
S - 6.40pm

Now we will wait for tonight!

However the last few days have been different:

Basically -
E - 6.30
A - 6.45
S - 7.30

E - 9.30 (this is his best sleep and I always have to wake him for it)
A - 9.45
S 10.35

E - 11.30
A - 11.45
S - 12.20

E - 2.00
A - 2.20
S - 2.50

E - 4.45
A - 5
S - here I've been stuck and tried to keep him up or add another feed around 6pm - I've just been SO confused what to do!!!!! but I've generally fed him again aroud 6 and in bed for 6.30 - hasn't gone down too well! (needless to say)
Then the night wakes have been horrific!!!!! last night 11pm - 3am and 5.30 (which we decided was wake up time)

Previous to the last three nights he was going to bed around 6.45 - then waking between 4 or 5am then morning at 7am! Do you think this could be a Growth spurt - also what do I do when or if he wakes early from that last nap!

Sorry so long!

Offline ~Sara~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 264
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 9268
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 03:25:54 am »
Hmmm, what I think is one of the underlying causes of the OT and NWs is that he needs to be on a more age-appropriate routine.  I see that his A times are about 1h long, or less.  At his age, most LOs are doing about 1h30-1h45 A times (see here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652).  Now, how this need of an A time increase relates to his overall routine is that he probably started short napping and/or had one long NW (that lasted for ~1hr)?  Just taking a guess there as those are typical signs of needing more A time.  Then, because of the short naps (which I see he still takes in the PM), he doesn't get a restorative snooze in, so then becomes OT by the end of the day...which then shifts to OT NWs/EWs and being tough to get to sleep at bedtime.

Another thing that I think is happening is that he sleeps so well for that first "nap" because it comes so soon after his "wake-up" time that his body is treating it like an extension of night sleep.

I know you wanted to know how to fit in the feed at the end of the day, but once we tweak his overall routine, I think that will fall into place.

What I would start doing is when he wakes up for the day, increase his A time by about 10 minutes.  Very, very gently do this so as to avoid OT.  If you think he can't handle 10 minutes, then just go for increasing by 5 every couple of days until he starts taking long naps (we're shooting for between 1.5-2h; 30-35 minutes is OT; and anything from ~40-just under 1.5h-ish is probably still UT).

That said, while he probably will need to be doing ~1.5h A times, his body can't handle a sudden 30 minute increase without becoming even more OT...that's why we want to take this slowly and let him have time to get used to the new A times.

When he's at ~1h30 A times, his day will look like this (adjust per wake-up time):

E: 7
A:
S: by 8:30
E: 10
A:
S: by 11:30
E: 1
A:
S: by 2:30
E: 4
A:
S: 5 (~40 min catnap)
A: 5:40ish
Then feed, bath, bedtime routine in whatever order works for you (I recommend feeding last before bed so as to fill him up the most)
S: no later than 7:30

But, another thing is that as you're doing this, you might notice that his body is naturally transitioning to a 3.5-4h EASY (this happens at about 4 months).  Here are some links to help with that:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0

Now that I've addressed those things and in response to your original question...while you're making these changes, if he wakes up early from his last nap (which is really supposed to be a catnap anyways), if you think he needs an earlier bedtime, feed him and put him to bed early.  I think the post-catnap evenings are very flexible.  I think if he wakes up at 5:30, has had a really bad nap day, then yes, feed early and put to bed earlier (say at about 6:30) so that he can catch up on some sleep.  If he's napped well that day, wakes up at 5:30, has eaten within 3 hours from waking up, then you're probably okay with keeping him up until his bedtime and feeding whenever you normally would.  Does that make sense?  It's just that how you do evenings will depend on the kind of day he's had, and bedtime is flexible to allow for good or "off" days. :)

Since you mentioned you thought it was a GS (which it could have been as there is one at ~4 months), have you seen the NWs taper off?  I just really feel that his routine needs to be tweaked to accommodate his need for more A time, and doing that, I feel, will help a lot of these issues.
*formerly tersaseda*

 




Offline rach77

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 88
  • My Boys hanging out!
  • Location: Sydney Australia
Re: up early from last nap - how does this work with EASY?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 20:04:49 pm »
OMGoodness, thank you so much for such a thoughtful response! You have no idea how much I appreciate it!! Beyond my expectations... I can't beleive I was putting him down so early. I must admit, in the last week or so he was getting more difficult to get down! OOOOOPPS!!! But he does show some huge tired signs (like now and he;s only been up 50 minutes or so) but I see what you mean about the AM sleep possibly being an extension of his night sleep!

I am going to start implimenting this new schedule today, however we have a bit on so it may be difficult but I'll see how it goes. Can I ask...
Do you think this new schedule will help with this MOTN feed? It's only one, but I'd really like to get rid of it. Also, do you think I should be moving to a 3.5hr schedule before he drops it? I'm worried if I drop a day feed then it will be more difficult to drop this night feed.

Also he is back now to only one feed in the MOTN.. I think it must have been a GS, however last night as you predicted he was up for about 1.5 hours (first time) I couldn't get him back to sleep so I ended up feeding him. I also have a 22 month old, I just can't stay up too long at night to be fair to him!

Sorry, but can I also as for you to explain what you mean by this: (we're shooting for between 1.5-2h; 30-35 minutes is OT; and anything from ~40-just under 1.5h-ish is probably still UT). I understand we are aiming for 1.5 - 2 hours of A time, just a bit confused on the rest!

Thanks again Sara. You're a champ!