NW 4 3/4 mo???

[kaynay]

can someone check my easy for me my LO is just on the longer end of A time seriously he is a month ahead at the beginning of his 4th month he was at 1 45 quickly to 2 hours A time and he the past 2 weeks rarely takes a cat nap leaving 2 long naps so 2 naps only t 4 mts seems crazy I did post about that so that is different..we weaned from swaddle this week so the 2 naps are a tad shorter so maybe he will take a cat nap now but I am stumped at his A time.??..my main goal of this post is the NW does it sound normal ?? he eats and goes right back to sleep and then wakes 2.5-3.5 hours after eating also he was taking 7 oz expressed BM now closer to 5 for most bottles is this normal if he has just 4 feeds a day and 1 Night feed??

A 630/ 7

E about 1/2- 45 min after waking he doesnt seem to eat a lot maybe due to NW usually 730 so I try to wait he just doesnt wake hungry

S 845/ 915 ---til about 10/1030depends on wake up I know it is long A time but before we weaned from swaddle he slept 1 hr 45 mnins now we weaned from swaddle 2 days ago and its closer to 1 hr 20 which I am sure he will work out once he really gets into getting thru that last transition

E 11 4 hour easy it is work to get him to finish 5 oz if we wait 4.5 hours he would take a little more but that seems to long and would cut into his next feed since he eats after being awake a little while

S 1-3 usually but now with swaddle weaning closer to 1 hr 20 he needs to learn to get thru that last transition again

E 330 6 oz hopefully sometimes 7oz

S lately none but hoping to squeeze in a cat nap now other naps are shorter

E 7 -- oz expressed bm

S 730 he just like 730 bedtime no earlier no later we have slide it 30 min in each direction and both result in early waking

HERE WE GO---around 130 he starts stirring I think he is used to this from trying to bust out of swaddle is now stirring to remember his habit but around 3 he is not going back to sleep unless he eats so he eats between 3-4 and goes right back to sleep

awake between 6-7

he doesnt take a pacy, has always been an efficient and fast breastfeeder I dont think he is waking for comfort sucking I dont want to wean this NF til I am sure he is ok without swaddle, in a sleep bag and tucked under a sheet so I want to drop the NF come soon though he will be 5 mos next week I want to work on that over 5 mos to 6 mos but it might not be possible huh?? I know my A times seem long but he is just seriously fine I cant believe it! How do we tackle the NW? If he was overtired wouldnt he be up more?

[*Liz*]

Night sounds completely fine and normal to me.

It is totally normal for a BF baby to need a night feed until solids are well established at 8 mths or so.

It doesn't sound typical of OT NWs at all.

So - the A times are high - but so what really  ? Someone has to be on the higher side of A times. I didn't have a consistent routine at this age but at 6 mths J was doing 3-3.5hrs. FWIW he slowed down in his A times a little once he was crawling and cruising. But has always been on the higher side of A times compared to others.

[kaynay]

well we thought he needed a swaddle weaning so we weaning swaddle that was easy but his nights are the same in fact the 1:30 is still there he babbles and sucks around his crib til about 2 then cries til about 3 goes back to sleep til 445ish so does that sound normal...I am at my wits end with being awake from 2-3 every night the 1:30 he is fine but then is mantra crying for almost an hour sometimes!?? normal? he doesnt eat much at 445 either and then I struggle with morning feeds because of it...I have tried to feed him at that 2-3 am mark and it only results of 5 am waking and not eating really strange...help...keep letting him do this 1:30 dance into 2-3am awake mantra for how long?

[*Liz*]

Sorry you confused me there - I assumed he was waking for a feed and being unsettled without a feed at about 2ish?

But I now think he is waking and you are trying to put the feed off and he keeps mantra crying but doesn't settle.

When I said the feeds were normal I meant that it would be totally normal for a BF baby to go to bed at 7.30pm, have a DF at 10.30pm and then wake again for a feed at 2ish am.

I wouldn't allow all that mantra crying as I think it honestly is hunger and that your LO probably isn't ready to drop that feed yet. Personally I think that most babies drop their nigh feeds when they are able to do so - and unfortunately that does vary a lot from baby to baby.

So thinking about the A times - he is nearly 5 mths and doing 2h 15 A first thing - then about 2h 30 A before the next nap. But then you have had some CN refusals?

If the CN is refused after waking at 3pm then your LO will be going to bed OT at 7.30pm - and for some LO's this can cause an EW rather than lots of NWs. The NWing pattern is not typical of pure OT - but lots of LO's don't follow 'the rules' and it is perhaps a combination of hunger and OT. 4.5hrs before bed is WAY too long at this age even for a happy baby who seems OK with it. It is the sort of A time that a 15 mth old is doing. Happy babies can be very misleading with their patterns though - I know as I have one  .

How long were you using those A times for before the naps got shorter? We need to decide whether the shortening naps are due to the swaddle wean or due to being UT I guess.

So my guess is that the 2am ish waking IS hunger, but the 5am waking is a 10.5hr EW due to being OT at bedtime.

Sorry for the confusion  - I tried to reply quickly last night but just didn't quite grasp a few things.

Are the nights any better on the days you do squeeze a CN in?

So I think we need to tweak the routine to try and drop the CN, but still allow a night feed for a bit longer. What do you think?

[kaynay]

thank you...for a long time he was going 730-330/ 4am at night no DF swaddled then til 630/7 after that feed and sometimes would even sttn bed at 730/sleept til 5/6 basically most of his 3rd month...4th month came he moved to 4 hour easy after his GS because he was sleeping longer naps and taking less in bottles and short bfs at 3 hr easy so we had 3.5 hour easy for a few weeks with the 5th feed as a cluster but then he just started taking hardly anything at the cluster so we moved to all 4 hr easy and takes 6-8.5 oz in a bottle expressed bm all day 3 bottles and 1 am BF... so the 1:30 --2am really doesnt strike me as hunger because he wakes happy is sucking and rolling around then gets frustrated he is awake ...so lets start with today and go from there I need to break this habitual waking he doesnt eat much at 4 am either...it seems that once he does eat at night his metabolism is kickstarted and he wakes 3 hours after he eats so if he eats at 2 he wakes 5 and another feed making 2 night feeds would totally throw him off as he barely eats as it is in the am at 7 after 1 NF...the naps havent really gotten shorter they just were for a few days when we were swaddle weaning we weaned swaddle last week took 2 days he is fine without it thank god we have given him back a cat nap if he wakes before 415 so any waking from nap at 3/330 he gets a small cat nap in his stroller on a walk yesterday he woke at 415 from his nap and he didnt take a cat nap he ate at 715 and went to bed at 730...
his A time seems to be 2 hrs 45 mins consistently unless he has a short nap and we are running errands then its closer to 1 hr 55 min where he always take a long nap after that if that happens

last night stirring around 1 awake at 2 started mantra crying at 210 til 310 back to sleep til 445 didnt eat much I feed him right away
awake 715
eat 730 hardly anything bf
sleep 10-11:30
eat 1145 8.5 oz expressed bm
sleep 215-345 is my guess he is pretty reliable napper in the afternoon
eat 345 expressed bm
sleep maybe a 15 min cat nap in stroller around 6
eat 715 usually 7-8 oz always
sleep 730

for a few days he was taking less in bottles since in the am he was seriously messed up from one night feed--he has been one night feed since early 3 mts ...but I always offer 1 NF no problem but now theres 2 NWs and I am confident 1 is not hunger...what to do!??

[*Liz*]

What about trying W2S for one of them?

I've never really done it myself but it sounds like it might be worth a go.

Which wake time is most consistent and seems most habitual to you?

[kaynay]

hi---so far 3 night ok nights...fingers crossed now we have a cold! if it ain't one thing its another! oi-vey!

[*Liz*]

((hugs)) and hope you LO is feeling better soon