How to re-establish EASY with a baby who feeds before sleeps.

[jzhang]

Hi,

My 4.5 month old up to now has been on a 3 hourly schedule. My biggest issue is that she can't self settle during the day and hence has really short naps (which i have to take with her together). I'm wanting to use the PU/PD method to train her. However, her current order of routine is feed, sleep and play. When she feeds, she doesn't actually fall asleep, she just gets really drowsy and wakes up straight away if i try to put her down or even lay down with her.
Last few days I tried to change the order to sleep, feed and play but then that resulted in her only taking half of her usual intake (400ml a day). I was wondering if it's essential that i change the order to sleep, feed and play to help with my training her to self-settle. If yes, then how can i get  her to take the usual intake when she wakes up?
Initially i thought i just had a self settle issue to deal with. but after reading The Baby Whisperer, it feels like there's plenty of other issues. I am very confused now as to where to start with training my baby. Do i tackle the EASY first or the self settle issue first and there's also the 3 to 4 hourly routine transition.

Please Help!

Thanks.

[luiza]

I am no expert, but your LO sounds in some ways like mine when I first started BW, same age, too.  I found it helped to slowly move from ESA to EAS.  I first put a small gap between the daytime feeds and the naps - 10 minutes maybe, and then worked on increasing it slowly.  So for a long time we had more of a SAEAS pattern.  DS still often will not eat right after waking up, but I don't feel it's a problem as long as he does not feed for naps.  I think of it like this: in between naps he has an awake period which is for playing and eating, as long as the eating is not happening right before sleep.  With this more flexible 'routine', I could watch him carefully and figure out whether he was ready for the 4 hour routine (he was).

As for self-settling, DS doesn't, I feel your pain.  I am trying to change sleep associations (he used to be carried in a sling and now he goes in the stroller) hoping that a new, less established association will be easier to break.  This might just be a fool's hope... maybe someone more experienced will weigh in on that.

[*Jo*]

Hi there and welcome to BW!

well i think by changing the routine you are going to have the issues of not being able to self settle in the process to tackle, shes been using the feeding as a way to fall asleep, so essentially its a prop.
I dont think Pu/Pd is the first port of call to be used, to be honest, its hard work and usually used as a last resort, there are a few other methods to be tried first. shh/pat being one of them.

If you are able to put up your routine as it is now for us to take a look at then we may be able to help out with that first. also because shes only on a 3 hour EASY then yes she will take smaller amounts at her feedings so stretching out her routine gradually will eventually sort that out too.

[jzhang]

Thanks for your replies. Well her ususal routine has been:

8.30am: wake up
8.30am -10.15am: activity
10.15am -10.30am: feed
10.30am - 11.15am: nap (unable to re-settle her for a longer nap)
11.15 - 1.15pm: activity (trying to stick to the 3 hour routine so had her staying up 15min longer)
1.15pm - 1.30pm: feed
1.30pm - 2.15pm: nap (again couldn't resettle her)
2.15pm - 4.00pm: activity
4.00pm - 4.15pm: feed
4.15pm - 6.00pm: nap (had to resettle 3 times)
6.00pm - 7.30pm: activity
7.30pm - 8.15pm: bath and feed
8.30pm: bedtime
2.00am - nigth feed
6.00am - early morning feed

As you can see the routine goes out of the window a bit by afternoon which happens everyday. Because somedays she would nap a bit longer and otherdays a bit shorter. If i try to stick to the 3hourly routine on a really strict basis then it means keeping her up longer than 2hours sometimes.

There's definitely a self settle issue (she cant nap alone during the day even though she sleeps much better during the night). From reading BW, it seems like in addition though, the order of the current routine is not ideal and the 3 hourly routine needs to be changed to 4 hourly as well. I really doubt that i can tackle all these issues at the same time.

If i tackle the self settle issue first, could it still work based on the current 3 hourly routine, maybe by as Luiza suggested putting in a 10min break between feeding and sleeping to break up that association? Also i've tried shhh-pat before but DD just keeps on crying hysterically like i'm not even there.

Thanks!