4.5 month old routine??

[ikesmummy]

Unfortunately the rest of the day didn't go so well - looked like this

A - 6.50ish (not quite sure when he woke up but this is when I heard him)
E - 7.20
A - 7.30
S - 9.10 (10 minutes or so resisting)
A - 10.35
E - 11
A - 11.10
S - 12.50
A - 1.30 (wouldn't go back to sleep and soon started giving me hunger cues)
E - 2.00
A - 2.10
S - 3.00 (had been pretty miserable since waking and went down without too much fuss)
A - 3.30 woke in a much better mood but was short lived, in the end all I could do to console him was feed him again
E - 4.15
A - 4.20 tried to get him to go down for a nap several times but to no avail
S - 6.30 ended up bringing his bedtime routine forward even though I knew he's fall asleep feeding and not have a proper feed which he did.

He then woke at 9 tried to re-settle him for half an hour but in the end had to feed him - not sure what to do now about dream feeds etc.

I know that the short nap at lunchtime is what through everything out but really not sure what to do in that situation, hoping for a smoother day tomorrow!

[happy09]

Hi Ikesmummy,
Im in a similar scenario to you!!!
DS is 20 weeks this weekend.  Its only in the last week that his naps have improved (we got rid of his paci-which we thnk helped).  He was a serial 40 min napper!!

Anyway, he was taking a 40min nap in am and then a great afternoon nap (1.5-2hours with absolutely no sound from him).  Takes a little catnap in evening and then down at 7 with a bottle at 10:30.  For the last 3 days I increased his am Activity time resulting in a 1hour am nap but then a 40min-1 hour afternoon nap and no settling him back to sleep for either.

Thinking it might just be his way, short am nap and long afternoon nap.
Its a mystery

[ikesmummy]

HI happy 09 - have to admit I didn't try to resettle him after his 45 minutes this morning (this was with the longer A time) although the day still didn't fit with our old routine, tried to put him down at 9.15 and it took me nearly half an hour to settle him (think he was OT although I hadn't picked up on an tiredness cues). He slept for 45 minutes, his afternoon nap was then 2.5 hours, couldn't get him to settle for a catnap so ended up giving up and putting him to bed at 6, just hope that he sleeps ok tonight.

Does you son sleep through from the catnap or are you having lots of NW? I'm up with Keaton once in the night normally somewhere between 3 and 5 (although it was really bad while he was poorly) and he has slept through till after 7 once (of course that night my 4 year old woke me).

[Yazzie]

Hey there sweetie, sorry your having a hard time..

A few things, first, you usually want naps to be around 1.5~2 hrs & the CN no more than 45 mins, so you'd need to keep the totals in your mind to be able to estimate how things are going through the day. For instance, you might wake your lo from a nap or reduce A time depending on what's happening & what your overall goal is. So, here's a link about recommended day & night sleep hrs, but remember these are recommendations & you need to find what works for your lo, my little guy would thrive on 2.30~3hrs day sleep, others need the whole 4 hrs, so here's the link:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0

I think that 2.10~2.15 is working out for your first A time, it does become trucky with the 2nd A 'cause 40 mins could be UT or OT, but I'm thinking possible OT, so you maybe want to aim for 2.10 with this one as well. Another thing I've just noticed, the feeding time don't really seem to be in sync, with these A times, you need to start moving to 4hrs between feeds, so what is the longest that your lo can go between feeds now?

Btw, you're doing a great job with brining forward bedtime when the day doesn't turn out so well..

[happy09]

Depending on how day goes and naps etc, DS is due a catnap after 4 and should be awake or woken about 5 so that he can get his bottle and spoonfeed and go down for 7.  thankfully he settles himself and generally goes to sleep very quickly at this time.  He sleeps through until we give him his last bottle at 10:30ish.  He wakes the minute we pick him up.  When we put him down after this bottle he falls asleep himself within a few mins.  Since we got rid of the paci (nearly 1 week ago) he sleeps until anytime after 6.  This morning he woke at 6:55, yesterday at 6:30.  He didnt make a sound last night-couldnt believe it.  Night before he was babbling for a few mins after 3 but then went back to sleep.  I know its tough when they keep wakening during the night-we used to be up a few times during the night putting paci back in so we really dont know ourselves now 

I suppose in total he is sleeping about 3hours from when he wakes until he goes down at 7.  I have found that even if he doesnt nap great (40mins) he is still ok for an activity of 2 10ish (asleep at 2 20) next time and sleeps for about an hour.  Think I read somewhere that they might not be able for all their activity next time.  Beginning to think that maybe its going to be his way!!!

When I used to try to settle DS when he woke early it never worked.  I noticed that he would have his eyes open and "happy out".  Other times if he woke early, occasionally he would have his eyes closed and replacing the paci sent him off again.  Im at the stage where I know if I will have any luck trying to get him back to sleep if he wakes early.

I must admit I find it hard to read his sleep cues.  In the morning I see the yawn and tried putting him down after 1st, 2nd yawn etc but all resulted in 40min nap.  I never really notice any other sleep cues from him during the day.  The only thing is being a little cranky but cant always associate that with tiredness.  Keep me updated

Its funny how we are both in a similar situation with similar nap times

[ikesmummy]

Thanks for your reply and support Yazzie. Trying really hard to pick up on Keaton's cues but it often feels like there is no real early signs with him (sure I will start to pick up on some but struggling at the moment). Because his morning nap is so often short (45 mins) that's why I tend to let him sleep until he wakes up in the afternoon (normally 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 hrs) as long as he's not resisted going down for his morning nap this brings us to between 2 and 2.30 and so we still squeeze in 30-45 min catnap which then runs in nicely to my ideal bedtime for him of between 6.30 and 7.

He will go 4 hours between feeds in the day sometimes, I think when this gets messy is when his naps have one haywire and he is tiered and grumpy, I presume this is kind of comfort feeding. Today's feeds were better than yesterday's even with the naps being a bit all over the place.

A - 7 (my son went it and talked to him in his cot and I managed to get myself a cup of tea)
E - 7.20
A - 7.30
S - 9.45 (took me half an hour to help him to sleep)
A - 10.30
E - 11
A - 11.10
S - 1.00 (think I was a bit late trying to get him down and then he fought it for 15 mins)
E - 3.30 (Just realised that was actually 4.5 hours between feeds)
A - tried to get him down for a catnap to no avail so decided on an early bed
E - 5.45
S - 6

He really sounded OT to me when I started trying to settle him for both naps today so going to be extra vigilante tomorrow, got to go he awake!

[ikesmummy]

Happy 09 we were posting at the same time. It is strange how similar their naps seem to be, when was he born? Keaton was on the 18th Sept.

Glad he's doing so well at night for you, I would think his days must be doing alright for him if he's settling easily at 7 and sleeping so well at night. On a good day Keaton is getting 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 hrs sleep during the day and although he still wakes for a night sleep sleeps well otherwise. I think as he's breastfed other than the occasional DF of formula so that I can go to bed and hubby can do it means that I am ok with one night feed. I also think he is so easily distracted from his feeds in the day that his is often his best feed!

What personality is your little fella? Keaton is predominantly spirited with a little bit of textbook.

Hope he made it through to nearly 7 for you!!

[happy09]

Hi Ikesmummy
DS born 20th September-so only 2 days between the little rogues!!!  I had thought he was a sprited baby until I did the test on this website.  He turned out to be a Textbook/Angel Baby!!  When I thought more about it I realised that he probably was.  I was focusing so much on his biggest negative (poor napping) and this made me believe he was no Angel / Textbook Baby.  he is so adaptable-smiles at everyone, never gets uspet when introduced to a new toy, place etc, loves his food, very adaptable, does everything on time.  Sometimes I do think hes  a little spirited as hes very lively.

I would guess with BF you may have some night wakenings.  Last night DS woke at 6:23am and I thought the little rogue but he babbled for about 10 mins and then off again.  I woke him at 7 15am.  He then napped for 40mins in am, 1 hour this afternoon, then we had to travel so he slept 20 mins on way there and 30 mins on way back for his catnap.  Generally he sleeps about 3 hrs a day.  Its great your LO gets plenty of sleep during the day.  Earlier this week he was sleeping better (40mins in am, 1/5-2hours in afternoon and then 30-40 min catnap.  Actually, like you i find it hard to read his signs.  This morning there was no cue of tiredness.  He kept going.  I ended up bringing him up to his cot at 935 and he started closing his eyes and asleep at 9 40.  Let me know if you get any signs from you LO and I must see if maybe Im missing something.

Is this your first baby?  its really only since he turned 4 months that things have settled for us  
What activity times are you using now?  I dont know which way to go with him now as we had such a variable week.

[Yazzie]

Hey there..!

Haven't been able to log on all day, how was your day?

I understand about sometimes not knowing how to fit feeds, especially when naps go haywire...!..but as he can go 4hrs, I'd try to stick with that & maybe sometimes feed 30mins earlier or later to accommodate what's going on with the day. You also need to avoid comfort feeding, so that it doesn't become a prop..

One thing that comes to mind & that I took a while to learn, was the importance of a wind down, especially with a spirited lo. They get so hyped & into things, that it takes them time to calm down & be ready for sleep, so if you want him asleep say @ 12, you'd want to start wind down ard 11.40~11.45. This is a link abt wind down, it would give you an idea, but really you can find what works for you, for instance, we just walk around the house, get ds's sleeping bag on, close curtains, sing twinkle twinkle little star & then I put him down:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

So how was today?

[ikesmummy]

Hi Happy 09 and Yazzie, sorry not been able to post for a few days things seem to have been manic here. Keaton has had a bit of a cold and everything went out of the window again. Today I have started a real push to get things back on track. think that maybe subconsciously I wasn't trying my hardest to sort the four hour EASY routine as things had been ok before he got his gastro bug with a smaller morning nap and bigger one in the middle of the day followed by a catnap before 5. Also think having a four year old (so no not my first baby Happy 09 - is it yours?) who I have to do pre-school runs with has been making it difficult to always do a wind down at the right moment.

He was up at 6.45 this morning and so started the day there with a feed. Saw a yawn and a rub of the eye at 8.30 so popped upstairs with him to change his nappy and have a quiet cuddle. Put him into his cot at 8.40 as he seemed really tiered, PU?PD took about 20 minutes and was asleep by 9, he woke at 9.45 I left him for 5 mins to see if he would re-settle and then went up but managed to get him back to sleep very quickly and he slept until 10.37, changed his nappy and bits and then fed him at 10.50, by 12.30 he was rubbing his eyes so back upstairs we went. Again had about 20 mins of PU/PD and he was asleep by 1.00 - fingers crossed I can get him to have at least 1 1/2 hours again. Finding the PU/PD really hard as he seems to get so frustrated and boy can my boy scream but I know that it shouldn't last forever and that I have to give this my full effort. I find it frustrating that he can put himself to sleep sometimes, Is it that I am misreading his cues?? I really am looking out for signs that he is tiered and trying to have a nice calm winddown (thanks for the link Yazzie it gave me some extra ideas). Anyway determined to give it 100% and not give up if things don't happen magically in a few days.

[Yazzie]

Glad to hear from you & even glader to see all this determination...way to go mummy..

Sorry to hear your little guy wasn't feeling well, but really you had no other option but to go with the flow during that time, but now you seem to have things under control more now, remember it's a process that requires lots of learning on both sides..

Why don't you hop on to the PU/PD board for advice from the ladies there?

[ikesmummy]

Yeah thanks had a bit of a look on their earlier and will find th energy to post soon. Did manage to get 2 x 1 1/2 hour naps and a 30 minute catnap today and the spaces between feeds were 4 hours apart from the last one which was a little under as I could tell he was getting tiered and didn't want him falling asleep nursing (but it was still over 3 1/2 hours) he seemed to take a really good feed, I was able to put him in his cot wide awake and walk out of the room (just wish he would settle himself like this for naps) fingers crossed for a good night so that I have the energy to do it all again tomorrow!! Love him so much and know that the crying now will be worh it to both of us before long!

Thanks so much for your support, really appreciate it

[Yazzie]

Yay...that was a good day.....& don't worry, it's normal for them to learn self soothing for the night & then naps..you're on the right track..

[ikesmummy]

Just a quick up-date to let you know howthings are going now.Had a rocky few days but I think that has just been the two of us getting on track. Yesterday was fab although feeds went a bit heywire due to two night wakenings meaning he wasn't hungry at the start of the day. got a 2hr nap a 1hr 20min nap and 35 minute catnap, really seemed to help his night sleep as well as he went from his 10.30 dream feed until ten to 6 this morning, managed to re settle him after a small feed so he did feed again at 7.30 this morning. The biggest breakthrough though is that due to a pooh explosion just as I was settling for his first nap this morning meant he was up for 2 1/2hrs as apposed to the 2 1/4 which seems right for him (needed a whole new set of clothes!) meant the inevitable 30 minute wake up but because we have been working so hard on him self settling with some assistance from me He managed to get back to the land of nod within 10 minutes with me only needing to pick him up twice, the rest of the time it was just my hands on him and some shushing when he needed it!

Really happy, feel like things are falling into place, have my fingers crossed for another good day even with the wobble at the start.

Thanks so much for your support!!

[Yazzie]

...super happy to hear the good news, well done mummy.......about the poo explosion, don't they do it @ the weirdest of times...hehe...as if they can choose..