Feeling a bit discouraged with 19 mo independent sleep during teething, wiwo?

[katie80]

Thanks again, Brenda!  Just saw you posted while I did.  It's good to know I'm not the only person whose gone through this and I appreciate that your advice comes from what you experienced.  I really do want all the APing to end, just feel kind of stuck now.  Will try to comfort her in the crib tonight instead of rocking.  I'm ready to implement my plan!

[alohahellokitty]

If you don't think she's well yet I would not do any major sleep training. I AGREE with Brenda, try to comfort with her still in the crib if possible. We've gotten in a major mess by holding WAY too long before. Sounds like she's a little still under the weather but not terribly sick. What I would do is adapt what I'm doing to comfort her to her sickness. If she's not terribly sick I wouldn't not hold and rock. If she's a little under the weather try to comfort in the crib. Do you know what I mean?

[*Becky*]

how are you doing? How was last night?

[LYDIAWESTWOOD]

I am in almost exactly the same position wth my 20mnth old boy, sickness, NW, early waking (today4.30) APing and DH away a lot so alone for it and loosing confidence. not sure whether to do sleep training now or wait until we move house (again in 2 weeks) but we are down to about 10hrs in 24 of sleep and he's major OT (so am I). I feel your pain, let me know how you get on I have to say your post is a mirror image of my situation and it's really tough, but def. 1 sleep in the day helps him not a catnap too, even if OT, better to go for early bedtime to combat that I think. Good luck I'll keep reading, I think the main thing which I am getting from all this is consistency - which I know - but it's hard to stick to at 4am when they are begging for cuddles :-(

[katie80]

Well, she did not sleep for the CN yesterday, so went for an early bedtime (6 pm), which would have worked wonderfully 2 weeks ago, but since she's stuck on the AP now, she didn't fall asleep til 7:45 pm.  *Sigh*  I'm just pretty fed up and frustrated with myself mostly and ready to start wiwo asap, because this is not helping anyone.  

But, even though she's going to bed sooo late, she's not NW, which is a good sign to me.  She's definitely getting over the sickness, and that leads me to believe most NWs are due to something other than OT, which is good to know, I guess.  

So, planning on going with wiwo tomorrow (Sat) night.  I read about PUPD for a good week and even took notes on it before I did it, so I need to know for sure how to proceed with wiwo.

My plan is to do wind-down, lay her in crib and walk out.  At which point she will be screaming.  Do I immediately walk back in with my sleep phrase or wait 30 sec?  Then, I'm assuming I continue going in after counting to 30 each time and repeating my phrase ('It's time to lie down and go to sleep'), unless she stops for any amount of time or proceeds into mantra.  And if I feel like she is getting really worked up, do I up the time in between or just keep going in and out?  My plan is to not give cuddles or lay her down as I know this will just make her more mad.  But, she will eventually lie down, right?  She's so stubborn, I'm afraid it might take a couple hours.  

I might begin a new thread to hopefully get some tips, but don't want to take up too much space on the boards.  

Edit:  One more thing, if she NWs for some reason, do I do WIWO again, or do what I've always done?  Yikes, I'm getting a bit nervous.

[alohahellokitty]

I would make a new thread Katie. You'll get some great help. My lo#1 is VERY stubborn and yes after we were undoing our APing it took a few hours the first time. That's right. If you've got a stubborn one, expect that. Hopefully she'll give up earlier though.

But it pay off  BIG time in the long run. To just be able to take her in her room (after her wind down) lay in her bed and say 'night night' and close the door. Its invaluable!!

I would NOT do put down as you stated this REALLY makes kids this age mad!! VERY mad! I did it on accident for a entire two days (naps and night time) before I realized it wasn't right.

[katie80]

But it pay off  BIG time in the long run. To just be able to take her in her room (after her wind down) lay in her bed and say 'night night' and close the door. Its invaluable!!

I agree.  I almost didn't realize how good we had it at bedtime until this last week.  I'm determined to get it back!

Thanks for the tips, ahk!!

[brenda2]

if you're wondering about tips on wiwo you should post over on props or getting back on track since this is really what your issue is.  you have gotten off track and have props in place that you need to break.

as with any sleep training method you need to adapt it to work for you and your lo.  with bw techniques though you do not wait a set amount of time outside the door even when doing wiwo.  you listen to the cries and respond appropriately when she's crying you need to go in.  i think it's ok to count to 10 or something to see if it is truly escalating or if she will calm herself down but you shouldn't be watching the clock and increasing time between going in, this is more along the lines of controlled crying where you leave lo to cry for 2 min then 3 min then 4 min etc.  this is not bw kwim?

with wiwo you go in, talk to her, say your phrase maybe pat her back until she is calm but don't take out of the crib and then leave.  for me it depends how verbal she is, now with dd1 i go in and ask her what's wrong and maybe she will tell me she wants water or a song or something so i can do that or just tuck her in again and then leave.  as they get more verbal i think you have more interaction kwim? 

if she's not verbal or asking for cuddles or to be picked up which you're not going to do i think you just keep repeating your phrase and then leave.  again depending on your lo you may need to leave before she calms down, go out shut the door, count to 10 and if still  crying go back in.  this is what i do with dd2 (11.5MO) as she calms down better when i leave, within 5-15 seconds i can hear her calming down and stopping crying.  or you may want to sit on the floor and talk to her until she lies herself down and calms dow n and then you can leave.  this is what i did with dd1 when she was about 12 mo as she didn't calm down when i left the room.  so it is different depending on her needs.  you may start with sitting on the floor and talking her through it (i kept saying lie down, sleepy time, you need to lie down now, go to sleep etc until she lay herself down because if i lay her down this really p**d her off).  the first few times i did this i stayed until after she was asleep and then worked on getting out of the room sooner when she was still awake.

[katie80]

you listen to the cries and respond appropriately when she's crying you need to go in.  i think it's ok to count to 10 or something to see if it is truly escalating

Ok, this is where I'm unsure, because it will be the same cry for a while, not escalating, but not calming, because she's mad and wants me to pick her up and sit with her.  So, do I literally walk out and then right back in, that doesn't seem like I'm giving her a chance to settle, and it could go on forever. 

you may start with sitting on the floor and talking her through it (i kept saying lie down, sleepy time, you need to lie down now, go to sleep etc until she lay herself down because if i lay her down this really p**d her off).  the first few times i did this i stayed until after she was asleep and then worked on getting out of the room sooner when she was still awake.

Confused here too, as I thought this was more of GW.  I'm not sure sitting on the floor next to her will help.  Tried this a couple nights ago and she just starts walking around her crib and telling me stories of the day.     But somehow I need to get her to lie down, because she gets extra upset like your dd if I try to do it!

Thanks again, Brenda, I'll post over on getting back on track too.

[brenda2]

again it depends on your lo.  MY lo (dd2) settles better when i walk out so if she is really screaming i go in, give her her lovey say sleepy time, usually lie her down and cover her up and leave - under 10 sec in the room and she will settle 9 times out of 10.  first time i tried it at 8 mo this is what she did.  textbook wiwo i think, no problem to get to this place.

with dd1 she did not do this so i did more of a gw approach i guess.  if i went in and laid her down she would get really upset, if i went in and walked out she got really upset and i would be wiwo all night.  so through trial and error i found that if i sat on the floor and talked to her she did eventually lie down and settle and i didn't feel like i was abandoning her.  she is more stubborn than dd2 and everything is a bit harder with her.  but i also found that if i went in and calmed her and then left she would get riled up again and take longer to calm the next time so that is why i chose to stay in the room.  i stayed until after she was asleep because she would wake up as soon as she heard me get up to leave.  but it wasn't too hard to then work on getting out of the room sooner and within a few weeks i could do the wiwo where you go in and stay until calm and then SHE would lie herself down and i could leave while she was still awake.

so...my point is there are many different ways to deal with your problem and really what you need to figure out is what's the best approach for you, what will work best with YOUR lo. 

with what you've told me about your lo what i would try is do winddown and put in bed say good night and leave.  if she cries go in, stay until she starts to calm and do whatever technique you want to to get her calm but don't take her out of the crib.  then say your sleepy phrase and leave, go all the way out of the room and shut the door even if she starts crying when you do so.  then count to 10 and if she's still criyng go back in and repeat.

[*Becky*]

Katie - I am going to lock this thread as I think you will get more help if you start a new one specifically about this issue. Will be there to help (as much as I can!)
We went through this and we did get DS back to sleeping independently and quickly after putting him down...it is hard but you will be fine.