Desperate for help! Please!

[mjn7678]

my son is 8 months old. he is breastfed. he is on a four hour easy. the only problem is, he is used to snacking at night because we co-slept up until about 2 weeks ago.  i have essentially taught him to be hungry at night.  i'm having such a hard time fixing this. i'm trying to get him to at least go four hours between night feeds, since he is doing that during the day.  sometimes he can go four hours (or more)sometimes he is shy of four hours. 

let's say he wakes up at the four hour mark? should i definitely feed him or see if he can go longer?  i don't want to send mixed messages by having him cry with pu/pd then eventually feed him.

he stayed at my parents last night because i am just beyond exhausted from doing this the past 8 months. i cry everyday and can't wait until i can get more sleep in. in the beginning of the night he has no problem going down. he is easy even after the first night feed, but once we hit the 2am mark it is soooo hard to get him back down. 

last night i gave my parents bottles of EBM. i was curious to see how much he ate because i really don't know, since i BF at night.  this is what he did:

7:00pm 4 ounce bottle then sleep
11:15pm  2 ounce bottle
2:30am  3.5 ounce bottle
5:45 he woke up
6:15 only ate 3 ounces of a 4 ounce bottle
my parents said he took each bottle really well, and fast

he isn't eating well in the morning because he is eating at night.  i feel like my entire problem with nightwaking is the fact that he still depends on about 5-6 ounces of food in the middle of night. how in the world do i fix this!

please please please give me advice....i honestly don't know what to do anymore. i feel like it is such a guessing game and with BF i never know how much he needs/wants.  btw, he is on 3 solid meals a day, too.  i've been trying to increase his bottles during the day from 4-5 ounces.  HELP!

[anna*]

I think you'll get him sleeping through if you phase out night feeds as quickly as you can. Yes he may be hungry overnight but hunger passes and he will make up for it next day. So last night (at your parents) he had two feeds so tonight you could do two feeds max, or, you could say he only gets one feed tonight. Either way, by tomorrow night he is one feed per night, and you do that for one more night, and then after that, night feeds are over. He really doesn't need any night feeds at this point and if he is not going to drop them for himself you will have to help him!

I went cold turkey on night feeds with my LO at nine months, he was waking every 2 hours. It took 3 nights of PUPD then he was sleeping through.

Decide what is a reasonable time for him to have his feed tonight. I would be inclined to do it at his first waking, but it is really up to you. When he wakes, decide before you go to him whether you are going to settle him without feeding, or whether you are going to feed. If you are going to feed, nurse and get him back to sleep as quickly as you can. If you decide to settle him without feeding, do PUPD for as long as it takes. DO NOT do PUPD for a while and then cave and feed.

I hope this helps. Good luck for tonight.

[mjn7678]

anna....thanks! i appreciate your response.  i know i really need to do exactly what you are suggesting.  how long should i hold out on feeding if i'm cutting it cold turkey?  10.5 hours? so if he goes to bed at 7, and wakes up around the 5:30 mark should i feed him or continue pu/pd?  i know in the early morning hours it will be tough because i won't be certain if he is up for the day, or continuing to NW......

i'm so nervous about doing this....i could only imagine how mad he is going to be.....and the crying....ugh, it will be rough. but, something has to give......

[Tay]

Completely agree with Anna that your LO, especially if he's having 3 good meals a day and if he is taking proper full feeds 4/5 times a day, shouldn't need extra feedings at night.

You can do as Anna suggested and only cut one feed at first, let's say the one at 2.30am (you still feed him at 11pm and then again at 5.45am). Sometimes what happens is that by cutting one feed the LO takes more during the next day and goes for a longer stretch all on his own.

The other option is to cut down the amount he takes at each feed, but it'll depend on your LO settling with that bit less - it works for some babies but it doesn't for others. In this case all you do is cut, let's say, 1oz (if giving a bottle of EBM) or a couple of minutes (if BFng). I started giving DS just one side rather than a full feed.

Another thing that is coming to my mind is: how does he fall asleep for naps and for the night? Have you been using PU/PD already? How has it been?
xxxx

[mjn7678]

thanks! he falls asleep for naps quite well. we just started putting him down on based on EASY about a week and a half ago. so, at the 3 hour mark he goes down and is taking much better naps now. he would usually go only 45 mins but now with our routine and pu/pd he can go about 1.5 hours. 

at night he goes down really easy. i feed him then put him down. he goes to bed rather easily with very little interventio from me. sometimes i do pu/pd.   he just seems so much harder at 2am to get him to settle with pu/pd. he is SCREAMING!

i may try to cut the 2 am feed out tonight and see how that goes.  if he doesn't wake up at 11 to eat(sometimes he goes 4, 5, 6 hours) should i give him a dreamfeed? i didn't think i should at his age?  but, it may help in this situation....what do you think?

[anna*]

I wouldn't start a dreamfeed, because you'll be wanting to wean it ias soon as it is established. Just gather up all of your emotional strength, and keep hold of it - in a few days he could be sleeping through!

Re the early mornings, I would feed at 5.3am IF he will go straight back to sleep. If he is awake to start the day, I would try to hold off until 7am.

[*Ali*]

It may also help to try to increase the amount of milk he is taking during the day beforehand. If you aren't already you could try double sided feeding. Sometimes a small break in between breasts can help him take more at the second breast. And he may also take more at the bedtime feed if you try not to feed him solids too soon before it. But do give a hearty dinner that includes some slow release energy foods to help him feel fuller for longer.
As pps mention there will be lots of crying but comfort yourself with the fact that it is only because he is telling you "hey this isn't how we do things". Remember as long as you are there for him it will work out for the best for all of you in the long run.
Do you have anyone who could help you do the pupd overnight? I find DS will go back to sleep without a feed sometimes if DH goes to him rather than if I do. Your DS associates you with the boob so might settle better for someone else if this is an option.
And maybe read up on age adaptions of pupd to be sure you are doing it the best way for his age, if you haven't already done so.
Good luck.   

[Tay]

I agree you shouldn't do a DF at this stage, but if he wakes up around 11pm looking for a feed I would do it.
Let us know how you get on tonight. Remember that sometimes all it takes is for it to work for that 1 feed and your LO might get the hang of it.
Good luck!
xxx

[mjn7678]

thank you sooooo much for responding! i really really appreciate it.  i  plan on doing the one feed tonight at around 11:30 or whenever he wakes up for the first time.....one question.....i was considering having my husband give him a bottle so i'm not in the picture.....we never give bottles of BM during the night hours....only if we are away for the night which has happened only once or twice (one of them being last night)do you think that will have an affect?  would you suggest that? or just BF? thanks again...and i will definitely let you know how the night goes!

[anna*]

I don't think it will really matter whether you do a BF or a bottle of EBM - whatever you choose.

[mjn7678]

ok..well here is how last night went.....not so good....
he was ASLEEP by 7:55. I started feeding him around 7:30.  I tried everything i could to get him to eat well.  he was falling asleep so much while he was eating.  i put him in the crib and he woke up a little bit, but i patted him down.
11:00 awake (since it was under 4 hours i tried pu/pd) he was hysterical! i gave him some water and he did suck a ton of it down (like 3 ounces) that suprised me
12:00 put him in crib...fell asleep
12:10 awake this time i fed him because we were at the 4 hour mark
12:40 asleep in crib
5:00 awake. i fed him. he did not eat a lot at all. this is where i thiknk i messed up.i should have done pu/pd for this, right?  he was asleep by 5:30 (deep sleep) then up again at 6.
at 6:00 he seemed to be up for the day 

ugh......i don't know.  its important to add that he has been on an antibiotic for an ear infection since thursday. his ears may still be contributing to the NW??? any advice for tonight?  thanks!!

[Tay]

The antibiotics might be causing some discomfort, but from what you're saying he was waking up in the middle of the night anyway, wasn't he?
TBH I wouldn't worry about the 4hr mark at night at all, the point about a 4hr EASY is to make sure you LO is getting enough during the day, if he is then he should be able to go at least 8/9hrs without anything at night (hopefull sleeping ).
I think you need to make a decision about one feed to cut out and just go for it. I would suggest you feed your LO when he wakes up first time just so YOU are absolutely sure he is well fed - exactly to cover for those cases when you are not sure about one of the day feeds, or like last night, the last feed. Just see it as a top up rather than an extra feed he needs.
So let's say, like last night he falls asleep by 8pm, if he wakes up at 11pm do feed him. You know then that he can go til 4/5am safely without needing anything. If he does wake up between those times you can then do the PU/PD or give water, but just make sure he's falling asleep independently.
Again, this is just a suggestion, the main thing is that you decide what your plan will be and stick with it.
On the point about giving a bottle of EBM at night: some people don't see any difference, I found that with mine it worked well to give the last feed on a bottle - I think because they're sleepy they don't work as hard on the breast but since they can't stop the flow of the bottle they end up taking a better feed. (It also worked for my own head to see the amount they were taking - made me really realise they didn't need anymore 4 hours later).
xxxx

[mjn7678]

thanks! i need to come up with a plan and stick to it  tonight. i'm getting so upset over the lack of sleep.  we'll see what tonight brings...........btw, i'm wondering if i'm doing pu/pd wrong? i need to look into that......

[Tay]

Just thought I would make your life easier http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0

Remember that for your LOs age you don't really do any PU, it's only PD!

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=89.0

xxxx