Bad case of SA I think...Please help!

[katie80]

Christine, good points on here by ahk, who I notice is Liana.  Happy to know you, Liana! 

So, I think you are going to have to be firm with her.  I don't know a lot about SA, but I do know it tends to rear its ugly head with teething, so that may be worth a check.  But, you're right, you can't always have DH to fall back on because sometimes he won't be there. 

My DH travels for work and is gone a lot at the beginning of the year.  Well, one night came in about April and we realized that DD refused to have him put her to bed, because I'd been the only one to do it for about 4 months!  Ooooops!     So, now, she'll go down with him fine if I'm gone, but if I'm in the house, it's always a no go.  He'll be home much more the next couple months, so it's something we're going to work on. 

So, I know where you're coming from, it's easier to go with what she knows, i.e. Dad telling her what to do, but I think it's best for all of you for her to learn to respond to you as well.  Yes, WIWO is hard, and it has taken me well over an hour in the past as well, but you're right, it is for her own good.  I always have to tell myself that in the heat of the moment!

* The other thing I'm thinking that maybe I need to up her A time a bit now that she is well, although up until today, she's been put down awake and has been fine for the 5-10 minutes until she falls asleep herself. Maybe she just needed a reminder today...not sure...

So, she might have just needed a reminder, but she also may need to up the A time as well.  What has your routine looked like the last few days when she was going down quickly?  It looks like right around 4 hr A is still about right in the morning.  Then, you may need to go to 3 hr 45 min A after the 30 min morning nap.  Another option would be to start cutting the morning nap shorter and bringing the afternoon nap up as well, but you still have a pretty early wake up, so it's probably not needed yet.  HTH!!

[Tao]

Hi Katie,

Thanks for the insight. I know what you mean about needing to teach her to listen to BOTH of us. When she became sick and we were having good naps, this is what we were doing:

5:30 or even 6:00 wake ups sometimes (but she would still a.m. nap I think because she was sick and needed it)
9:30-10:00 Nap
1:30-2:50 Nap
6:30 BT

This worked really well up until today. Tomorrow I will try 4 hours A and see if that may help. I think I may have to cut nap to 20 minutes because I've also noticed that if p.m. nap gets too "late" she will refuse to go down also. I think I will need to play around with p.m. nap time as well.

Another thing I realized...when she has had a bad nap day, say one nap or like today a 30 minute nap day, the next day, she will be able to handle shorter A times, but then if she has a good nap day, I forget to take that into consideration the next day. Does that make sense? Tomorrow she may sleep well on the same schedule because she had so little sleep today, but then I need to account for it the following day. It's a bit tricky really =).

[katie80]

It's a bit tricky really =).

Yes, it sure is. 

I think I may have to cut nap to 20 minutes because I've also noticed that if p.m. nap gets too "late" she will refuse to go down also. I think I will need to play around with p.m. nap time as well.

Yes, you may need to, but her bedtime is pretty early right now.  I'm thinking it might help to actually stretch out the day a little bit before cutting the morning nap, because eventually you're going to want a later wake up to be able to get to one nap easier.  Does that make sense?

[alohahellokitty]

Yes its Liana. Thought since I was on here a lot I might as well add my name. I'm a hello kitty fanatic, that's why the screen name.

I'm soooooooo going to need you ladies help when I start transitioning DS to 2 naps then again to one. We work well together! Do you remember when your lo's went down to two naps?? I'm having a hard time remembering.... And my lo#1 has the highest sleep needs ever, so it wouldn't be the same anyway!!!!!! She fell asleep today on the way to preschool at 9am!! (she woke at 6:45am) when she's teething she should really be on two naps, but will not take two anymore.

Christine, how's little Sophie doing??

Katie, what's your little girls name, I forget?

[katie80]

Katie, what's your little girls name, I forget?

Claire! 

[Tao]

Hi Ladies,

It's actually more like you two are a great team and I am just good at listening =). You've given some great great advice!

Liana- If I remember correctly my DD went to two naps at 6-7 months. I remember having early BT's to make up for that drop in the third nap and to prevent OT. I hope the transition goes smoothly for your little one. Two to one has been really tough for us and I think it's just tough in general. But you're an experienced mommy now which make things a bit easier! How is your little one's diahrrea? Better?

Katie: What a beautiful name! I love the name Claire--so gentle and sweet!

Today is the third day she's refused her p.m. nap. Sigh. I even tried a longer A time before the p.m. nap and the crazy thing was she actually went down quietly and went to sleep for 2 minutes and then something suddenly woke her up and she stood up and did her standing routing for 50 minutes before I finally went in to get her. Not sure what suddenly woke her up but I was singing my praises until I heard a cry and thought..."uh oh!" Dad went in twice but she screeched and screeched and fought it hard. Then...get this. I finally get her because it's been 50 minutes and it's obvious that she doesn't want to sleep and after I pick her up and bring her to the room to change, she smiles and waves to the BOTH of us. My husband and I look at each other thinking, Sophie 23...mommy and daddy 0.

This is what our schedule looked like:

5:00 Wake up (her mornings are getting earlier and earlier as is to be expected when she only has 30 minute naps all day. Tomorrow she will probably wake at 430 a.m.)!

9:20-9:50 Nap
1:50-1:53 Nap (then suddenly popped up and started crying..unless I was wrong and she never went down.)
5:15 BT

Not quite sure what to try tomorrow.. Afraid that OT will begin to build up again like last time.

[alohahellokitty]

Katie, I love the name. fits her cute little picture.

Oh Christine. I'm so sorry!!!! ahhhhhhh, these LO's are just killin us right now! LOL

Anna-Li's diarrhea is much better. She's recovering thank God!

It seems to me at this age when Anna-Li was sick or teething and got OT she would just refuse naps period. It was so frustrating b/c she would be sooooooooo winy, cranky and in pain but REFUSE naps. Its like all they need is to SLEEP but that's the last thing they will do!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 days in a row refusing pm nap, maybe its time to just switch her to one nap and a VERY early bt to compensate? I have a hard time giving much advice for A times and such as DD was so high sleep needs. But today she was beside herself at 10am (after being awake 3 hours.......... SHE'S 24 months too!!) so I just plugged her in bed. I just decided I'm going to put her down when she needs to go down before getting OT and let her sleep as long as she wants, then do a VERY early bt. When she's teething she really needs to do 2 naps a day, but will NOT do them. I've tried every trick in the book to get her to do it, she WON'T! So far this has worked for her. I usually let her nap around 10 or 11am and she will sleep a hour or so. Then I put her to bed around 5:30-6:30 depending on when she gets tired. And for some reason by me getting her down before she's OT she will make that sleep up at night (5:30pm-6:30 or 7am). So I ensure she goes down for a nap tired but not OT then goes to bed tired but not OT. And for some reason this works. I'm not sure if it would work in your case as I think she's still young enough and really needs the two naps still. But its is our only option b/c if I try for two naps a early and late she'll take a small early nap and refuse the pm one and get ot. if I try one nap in the middle of the day she's ot for the nap and wakes screaming her head off at 3o min's and will NOT go back down. Then goes to bed ot. So this is our only solution. Its not perfect but its all the works at the moment. So I just watch her cues and not the clock. Put her down for one nap when she's tired and then put her to bed when she's tired. She's not awake much at the moment... LOL! But its the only way to prevent that early wakings and the ot loop. I discovered this solution after she had one nap not too early but not mid day (right in between) then she fell asleep in the car on the way home from somewhere at 5pm. .She had been so beside herself all day I just couldn't take it anymore, so I put her in her crib fully clothed knowing she'd wake in a half an hour and we'd have to do a very late bt. But she didn't wake until 7:30am (she had been previously waking at 5:45-6am). I guess her body just needed that huge catch up time. And I realized she fell asleep when she was tired and didn't wake until she was more rested.

Anyway, take that for what its worth but its working at our house right now.

Is there any way to resettle her when she wakes in the morn? Do you have any way to get her back down so she can start a more reasonable time? I think she's WAY OT at the moment and is having trouble getting caught up. I think she's in a big OT, SA loop, just going round and round and round and its getting worse.

[katie80]

Many thanks on the name!  Claire means "clear, bright," which she definitely is!! 

You've given some great great advice!

But I'm not sure it's working.    Sorry, Christine!

So, the previous two days that she refused the pm nap, what was the A time at (you mentioned you added some on for today)?  From my experience, I would say she's OT, but that's where my mind defaults to, so I could definitely be wrong.  Is she settling well for the morning nap?

A couple options again.  You can keep with the A times you used today.  If you do in fact think she fell asleep quickly and it was something else that woke her, then it's worth a try to see what happens tomorrow.  It may be that today was a fluke.  Or, you can go the route of cutting the morning nap and bringing the afternoon nap up.  If you cut the morning nap, I'd try a much shorter afternoon A to begin with, maybe around 2.5 hr or 2 hr 45 min.  Right now, at 21 mo, if my DD has had a longish NW or a significantly early EW, she'll do a 20 min am CN and just barely under 3 hr A after that.

I do hope that helps.  If it continues to be a struggle, you might start a new thread to get some new, more experienced advice.  I'm sure we'll follow you over; I just want you to get this figured out!!

[momtonb&ab]

just locking this thread

pop over to http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173927.0 to help out so we can keep all advice on the same thread