Author Topic: what are these random night wakings?  (Read 1639 times)

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Offline brynhilde

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what are these random night wakings?
« on: July 07, 2010, 20:36:45 pm »
DD (15 weeks) has taken to waking several times in the night, crying hard for 5-10 mins but then settling back to sleep either by herself or with us patting etc.  I don't think she is hungry (will fall back to sleep on the breast without taking a full feed), the wakings are more similar to when she wakes halfway through her naps.

I should also add that I have removed her dummy about a week ago because she had started waking for it every 20 mins in the early morning - and that side of things has really improved. But now we're getting these random wakings instead, so we're still not getting much sleep!

I initially thought it was OT, but she actually seems to wake more when she's had better naps during the day.

Just wondering if anyone knows what could be causing this and what I can do about it? Am also not sure what to do in the night when she wakes like this - we usually try to comfort her but as she seems to be able to resettle herself without help (albeit with a fair amount of crying), is it better just to leave her to resettle? (she sleeps in our room)

Really confused about what's going on here, any suggestions would be welcome!!

Offline Tweakster

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 16:46:03 pm »
HI there, could you post her routine in EAS.  If she's waking more with more day sleep, then maybe she's getting too much. 
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Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 22:03:18 pm »
Sure, it's been pretty consistent in the past few days, along the following lines. This is from Tuesday, which is pretty typical of where we are right now on a "routine" day:
E 7.30
A 7.15-8.45 (1hr 30)
S 8.45-10.35 (resettled 9.30)
E 10.40
A 10.35-12.05 (1hr 30)
S 12.05-13.10 (resettled 12.35)
E 13.30
A 13.10-14.55 (1hr 45)
S 14.55-5.00 (resettled twice)
E 5.05
A 5.00-7.00 (2 hrs)
S 7.00-7.20 (catnap in pram to preserve bedtime)
E 7.30
A 7.20-8.40 (1hr 20)
S 8.40 (an hour later than usual as we're currently staying with my parents in France, 1 hr ahead)
E 11 (DF)

The following night she woke 3 times before the DF at 11pm, then at 2.15 (I fed but shouldn't have as she didn't take much), 4 (resettled), 5 (resettled), 6 (fed - hungry), then up for the day at 7.45.

Yesterday was an odd day as we were out for a birthday, so her naps were much shorter:
Woke 7.45
E 8.00
A 7.45-9.20
S 9.20-10.45
E 10.50
A 10.45-12.10
S 12.10-12.40 (then moved to carseat as had to go out. Didn't go back to sleep)
A 12.40-3.05 (in a restaurant)
S 3.05-4.10 (woke after 30 mins, resettled for 5 mins only)
E 4.10
A 4.10-5.30
S 5.30-6
E 6.15
A 6-8
S 8 (in bed from 7.30; 30 mins to fall asleep)
E 11 (DF)
Woke 10.30 (resettled), 2.45 (fed - hungry) and 6.00 (fed - hungry). Then woke for day at 8.30

This day is worse than usual in terms of naps, but much better than usual in terms of the night!!

Today we've had another unusual day as my parents were looking after her, so naps have been short again. She went to sleep at 8 and has already woken twice (9.45 and 10.30) but resettled herself in a few minutes both times.

Hope this helps! Really grateful for any ideas....

Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 09:42:53 am »
Hi again. Just an update on last night - she woke 3 or 4 more times after the DF (11pm) but resettled herself after a few minutes of fussing each time (we didn't interfere). At the 5.30 waking I fed her and she then slept til 8.  She would probably have resettled at 5.30 too, but I didn't want to feed her too late in the morning as I didn't think she would last all the way til 8 without a feed. I have to say I find it hard to know if she's hungry or just fussy when she wakes though. But I presume if she's hungry she wouldn't resettle?

This was a pretty good night by our standards as she only woke very briefly each time. And it was after another day of poor naps and longer than usual A times. Hmm.

Offline bumblemum

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 17:56:44 pm »
Hey Brynhilde,

Nice to hear your nights seem to be a bit better. As expected with our in-sync babies my lo has also had some pretty OK nights. I put her in her own room recently and this has been a massive improvement.

I know she wakes more than this but resettles without our help and I don't wake - bliss.

On my thread I got advice that she might be having a little too much day sleep. I cut one of her naps short (oh how funny it is to do this after struggling so much for her to nap longer than 30 mins!).  Following that she was in bed by 7pm, woke for feed at 12.00 and then not until 4.20am.

I'm not sure if the reason for such a great night was because of her naps so now I'm trying to replicate that day to check! This hasn't been possible so far and I'm now getting so paranoid about going out for the day in case she sleeps too much. Had really rubbish day today trying to keep her awake a bit because I knew we had a 90 min drive home in which she would sleep.

I'm worried that I'm back to not enjoying myself because I'm worrying about effects on the night. I wish I could switch my brain off and go with the flow but it doesn't seem possible!

Have you got your lo one in her own room yet? It's been a break through. I had my lo napping in there so the transition went without a hitch.

Hope you're enjoying your holiday,

C x

Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2010, 20:55:43 pm »
Hi there. So glad things are improving for you! We only had one waking last night which is great for us!

I think too much day sleep may be an issue here too, but it is such a fine line between too much and too little. DD is quite happy to stay awake for longer (up to 2 hours or so) but then becomes near impossible to settle for a nap - particularly now we don't have the dummy. I am trying to get the right balance which is resulting in endless tweaking. It doesn't help that my mum is giving me a hard time for taking her off to bed (which inevitably makes her cry alot!) when she's happy. As a result we've had several As over 2h today, which really is too long. DH and I have resolved to be tougher tomorrow.

By the way we now also have lots of 30 min naps and its getting harder to resettle her than it used to be. But that might just be because we're not using the dummy anymore.

I think moving her to her own room will help and we're planning to do it quite soon, probably by the time she's 4 months in about 2 weeks time.

Also struggling to go with the flow... spending most of the day obsessing over A times and poring over my notes... and still none the wiser. But of course things are already a lot better than they used to be, and of course there is no such thing as a perfect day so you just have to expect some variance.

Lets hope our DDs decide to have another good night tonight!!

Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 14:25:38 pm »
Hi again. Last night was fantastic and we only had one waking, for a feed at 3.45am. So it seems things are finally getting better!! I think it's mostly a case of getting the daytime sleep right - not too much and not too little. For the last 2 days we've had two "long" (c. 1.5h) and two "short" (c. 40 min) naps, and that feels like it's about right for the moment. On both nights she has been quite tired by the time we settled her for the night, but on balance this seems to be working out better for nighttime sleep. Thanks all for your encouragement.

Offline Tweakster

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 14:48:05 pm »
Great news!  Daytime sleep has a huge impact on night sleep for sure.  Sleep begets sleep for these LO's.
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Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 08:42:47 am »
Another awful night last night, I'm not sure how many times she woke but feels like we were up settling and feeding most of the night. Pretty sure this time it was OT because she hadn't napped well during the day.

What I'm struggling with is when to feed her and when to just resettle - I find it really hard to read whether she's hungry when she wakes or just unsettled. I'm thinking she should be able to go at least 3 hours between feeds in the night so I try not to feed her unless it's been 3 hours, but there's still a huge amount of trial and error going on. Last night I fed her at 3.15 (she took a full feed) then when she woke at 5 we tried to resettle her. But she wasn't having any of it so in the end I fed her and she pretty much took a full feed again and then went straight back to sleep (but of course when she woke at 8am she wasn't hungry at all).

Anyway am going to work on getting better naps today and hopefully there will be less wakings in the first place!

Offline bumblemum

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 09:21:38 am »
Hi Brynhilde,

Isn't it so tiring when you have a string of good nights and then a multiple NW'ing one!

I'm also not sure about when to feed and have been trying to settle if 3 hrs haven't passed. It's when it's 2 hrs 20mins for example when I'm not sure. I had this situation night before last and she fed but not very enthusiastically. She was unsettled the whole night and on reflection I think it was trapped wind.

Last night was nearly amazing with a feed at 12.30 and then at 4.30. After the 4.30 feed I struggled to settle her so thought it must be wind again. Even though it thoroughly woke her up I persisted with winding her and low and behold we had a burp. She went back into her cot as quiet as a lamb and we had to wake her at 8am.

NW is like a puzzle and the days that precede a good night are not necessarily text book - and are sometimes a bit sketchy with naps etc so I'm starting to wonder if it's always linked. Yesterday her 2nd nap was really haphazard because we went shopping so it was probably only 45 mins in total. That meant she wanted to eat earlier and then nap earlier. She woke from final nap at about 4.10pm - I then had to entertain till bt because I was paranoid she would have too much sleep and be up all night. She dropped into her cot at 7pm without a peep and slept brilliantly.

Are NW'ings dependant on the amount of day sleep, the amount of calories in, trapped wind or none of the above?!

Hope today goes better - on the whole I think things are gradually improving so I hope this is the same for you.

C

Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2010, 16:41:37 pm »
Hi there. Yes it's so frustrating and every time it makes me think I'd been fooling myself all along that we had mande progress, and that we are back on square one!  Thankfully last night was better (2 feeds but no "random" wakings) so feeling a bit less desperate on this front today.  The 2nd feed was only 2 hrs after the 1st but again she really was hungry.  I just find it strange she can go longer between feeds during the day than she can at night! Wish it were the other way around...

But you are so right that there is no magic formula for getting a good night.  They are human beings - sometimes they will sleep better and sometimes worse, and of course there is not always an obvious reason for one or the other.  I guess all we can do is our best, and then hope for the best at nighttime!  And day sleep seems to cut both ways. Too litte = OT, too much = UT in the night.

We've been badly bitten by the 30 minute nap monster now so I'm off to look at your old thread on that. Basically it means that I'm just taking whatever day sleep I can get at the moment - I've managed four 30 min naps so far today and she is now on her 5th (she was too tired to wait til bedtime).

Glad things are going better for you! I think they are (or at least were) for me too. Two steps forward, one back....

Offline bumblemum

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2010, 18:14:44 pm »
Hey Brynhilde,

Here is what I did re: naps. I find the naps a bit random and usually pretty good. She either sleeps through to 1hr 30 mins or stirs at the 30 min or 45 min mark. When she stirs I now ignore for a bit because she often goes off without me messing with her. Then the least I do is go in put my hand on her and say 'sleepy time, time for a sleep' a few times. Then walk out and sometimes this is enough for her to go to sleep. If she doesn't settle then it's invariably wind (she gets really bad trapped wind). I will really quietly wind her and put her back. If I get a burp then she will grumble a bit and then go to sleep. This is working well so often that I've rarely had to get her up. Recently I just couldn't budge a stubborn burp so I sat with her for the nap. This is pretty rare these days.

All this nap success started when I was just so tired one Saturday that I left her to it for a bit and she went off to sleep. It wasn't an 'I need you' cry and that's when I started to recognise her Mantra cry I think.

I also found UT'ness a problem so I now ignore the yawns and wait for a small grumble. Also good because I'm trying to extend A time. On about 2 hrs now.

Hope this helps. I really hope the sttn thing happens again soon and then I will share again. Or lo's are in sync remember so you should be getting a sttn any time soon!!!

C

p.s. it has been good for two nights but the night before that was bloody awful so I hope I don't sound smug because I certainly haven't got it cracked!!

Offline brynhilde

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Re: what are these random night wakings?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2010, 06:34:14 am »
Hi. Thanks once again for your support! Last night was another fairly good one, she woke for 2 feeds (3.45 and 6.40am). The 6.40am had all the signs of an EW (she has been waking between 7.30-8.30 since we've been here in France) but I fed her and put her back in bed and she went back to sleep (I think - at least she was quiet) until 8. What was great was that I didn't hear a squeak from her at any other time, so she seems to have been sleeping really soundly.

Although of course I didn't sleep well - I kept waking every hour listening for movement and surprised she hadn't woken up yet...

Thanks for your advice on naps - yours is a real success story.  Really hoping its just a phase because its really affecting our EASY and making previously happy DD OT and grumpy all day.

Hope your night was as good as the last!!