Author Topic: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline lize566

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8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« on: August 01, 2010, 02:57:38 am »
Hi everyone! I'm new to the boards and just started trying to get my son on a schedule. Until this point, I've pretty much been feeding on demand. We sort of had a routine, but it consisted of a lot of sleep and a lot of feedings, with a few hours of awake time in the afternoon and evening. I tried the EASY schedule today and it went pretty well-although we never made it to 3 hours, 2.5 hours between feedings is better than the 1-1.5 hours it has been! We were out tonight and he usually falls asleep in the car, so instead of EAS, we had ESA between 6 and 8. I fed him at 8 (he ate for 20 minutes or so, his average is closer to 10), changed his diaper, put him in his sleeper, did a sort of massage, read a book and put him down. He lasted a few minutes, then up again. After crying for 10 minutes (this is all my husband could bare to listen to, and it was getting kind of difficult for me as well!) I picked him and got back to almost asleep. This continued until 9, then I fed him again (only ate for 6 minutes). Same thing until 9:30, when he wouldn't go back to sleep. He was tired, you could tell, but he was also rooting and sucking like crazy. So I fed him again at 10:15, he ate for 11 minutes, then was out like a light. This is pretty normal for us, the timing is sometimes earlier, sometimes later, but he usually sleeps for 5 hours, then wakes every 2-3 hours until morning (which is usually 10-11 for him). I know there is probably more information I could give you, but this is all I can think of at the moment. He will be 8 weeks old on Tuesday. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not this is him actually being hungry or just comfort sucking, although not even the pacifier would soothe him at that point. How can I break him of this, and stretch the feeding to 2 hours, or is it something that will correct itself on its own. I don't mind doing it, but I don't want him to depend on eating to go to sleep, although he doesn't during the day. Ugh, I'm so confused! I just want to do what's best for him, but I'm going back to work in a few weeks and I need some sort of routine by that point. I hope this makes sense, and I would appreciate any advice you guys have. TIA!

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 22:52:25 pm »
Hi there and welcome to the boards  :-*  :)

Okay. So feeds are really close together and you've just tried EASY, with feeds around 2.5h apart, right? Right now, I wonder if it could be a GS but if it's always been this way with feeds close together then not sure...

Can you detail your day a little more like this:
wake-up@?
E: BF (how long feed lasts - good sucking and swallowing sounds, single or both sides?)
S: 8.30 - 10
E: 10am BF
S: 11.30 - ? etc etc

This will give us more idea of what is happening. Also, how do you settle to sleep during the day - you mention he isn't nursed to sleep during the day but is at night? Any fussyness during feeds, or fussyness about 40mins after the feed (funny clicking or gulping noises when lying down), windy or gassy? Plenty of wet and pooey nappies, growing well?

Also, are you eating and drinking plenty (more than when very very pregnant)?

Let us know  :)

Charlotte

Offline lize566

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Re: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 12:17:29 pm »
Thanks for responding! I had a feeling I would need to post our schedule, but it was 3 am when I posted originally.

Before I tried EASY, I fed on demand. He was eating 10-11 times a day for an average feeding time of 8-9 minutes. This is how it was from the beginning; he's a pretty efficient eater. Other than his 3-4 week growth spurt, he's never been one to linger. At night, he would be pretty fussy, and acted hungery and wouldn't take a pacifier (which he does during the day and after feedings) so I fed him. Often, but not always, he would fall asleep at the breast. Since the first few weeks of his life, he's been doing this then sleeping for a 5 hour stretch at night, so the LC and ped. said it was just him filling up for the night. I'm fine with that, if that's the case. Anyhow, here is our schedule for the last 2 days. I'm going to do this in 2 posts b/c my computer is being weird with this site and will only let my posts be so long.

Day 1
E 6:15 (9 min) I wasn't ready to get up and neither was he, so we went back to bed (I would like the normal wake up to be between 7:30-8)
S 6:25
E 8:27 (6 min) I was up for the day, tried to get him up. (before today he would sleep until 11 am then be up for a while, then catnap until bedtime, eating on demand)
A changed diaper, wouldn't wake up
S 8:35
E 11:02 (12 min)
A started fussing around 11:50
S 12:10 woke at 12:45, picked him up after 10 min crying gave him paci dozed in swing
E 1:38 (10 min)

S 2:45
E 3:38 (15 min)
A
S 4:40, fell asleep in car, woke up in church at 5:20. Content but awake for little while, then used paci to soothe him. Never went back to sleep
E 6:10 (14 min)
A
S 6:40 fell asleep in car, woke up around 7:30, never went back to sleep
CF 1 E 8:05 (21 min)
A began night time routine- change diaper, rubbed lotion on, put in sleeper, read book. Put him down at 8:45 with music on. Fussed until 855, when we picked him up and gave paci and rocked him until 9. Put him down almost asleep. Fussed again at 9:05, nothing would soothe him, acted really hungry fed again
CF 2 E 9:07 (6), put him down at 9:13, mostly asleep.
A Up again at 9:18. Picked up at 926, back down at 930. Fussed at 936. Never went back to sleep
CF 3 E 10:11 (11 min)
S 10:24 pretty much fell asleep at breast.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 12:29:40 pm by lize566 »

Offline lize566

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Re: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 13:05:14 pm »
Day 2
E 3:14 am (9min)
S 3:25 am
E 5:27 (13 min) changed him in the middle b/c he pooped
S 5:55 Fell asleep at breast, went right back down
E 8:40 (6 min)
A
S 937 Turned music on, fussed until 946. Woke up crying at 10:30, picked him up used paci to soothe until next feeding. Dozed off and on with me on the couch.
E 10:52 (15 min). Couldn't stretch it any longer
A
S 12:05 pretty sleepy, went  right to sleep. Cried out a few times but went right back to sleep. Had to wake him
E 2:03 (12 min) changed diaper in the middle
A
S 3:30 My mom was over and wanted to rock him to sleep. Began fussing at 4:05, picked him up and used paci.
Slept in swing until 4:40.
E 5:07 (13 min)
A
S 6:15 still with mom, rocked to sleep at 6:15, but was pretty much out just from being held. Woke up at 7, played a little, back to sleep at 7:40
CF 1 E 8:00 (20 min, both sides)
A changed diaper and clothes, played a few minutes, drove home, read book, sang song (attempting to find a good nightly routine that works for us) tried to put him down at 9:30 after being rocked with paci for a few minutes. Music was on. Fussed after a few minutes, continued until next feeding
 CF 2 E 9:55 (9 min)  fell asleep at breast after 4 minutes. Woke up when I burped him ate another 5 minutes. Put him to bed awake but content with music on. Cried almost immediately. Fussed off and on in 10-15 minutes intervals for next hour. Would cry for 10 minutes, quiet for 7 or so, start whimpering again with intermittent wails, quiet again, etc.
CF 3 E 11:15 (8 min) fell asleep on breast, went down fine. 
S 11:23
So far today:
E 4:30 am (10 min)
S 4:40
E 7:09 (8 min)
A
S 8 am
Sorry for all the detail, I just copied and pasted from my notes

As fas as settling him to sleep during the day-he's usually pretty drowsy when I put him down, but he gets swaddled and if he's restless I will turn a music box on for him. He hardly ever fusses when I put him down, probably b/c he's usually almost asleep when I do. We rarely put him down with the paci b/c he tend to spit it out and wake himself up.

He eats well-the occassional click, but it only comes when he's being lazy b/c he gets a bottle sometimes, so after that he tends to be lazier when he eats. He hasn't had a bottle in a while, though. Most, if not all, of our feedings are one sided, b/c I'm pumping to try to build up a stock for when I go back to work, so I feed him on one side and pump the other. He hasn't really ever wanted both sides, so I stopped offering unless he's still fussy after one side. He usually gulps at the beginning b/c I think I have a fairly fast let-down. I try to pay attention to make sure he is swallowing the whole time, but I've had trouble being able to tell. The best I can do is say that he pauses with his chin down after every 1-3 sucks. I've heard that means he's getting a mouthful of milk.

Overall he's a content baby. Usually only fusses if he's hungry or tired, which I now know b/c of this routine. He doesn't have any gas issues. He has the appropriate amount of wet/dirty diapers and he's growing like a weed. He was born on June 8th weighing 7 lbs 7 oz, 19.5 inches long. At one month he was 10 lb 8 oz, 22ish inches long. July 26 (7 weeks) he weighed 12 lbs 4 oz.

I've always drank a lot of water, so that's not really changing. I'm not eating as much as I used to, but I'm overweight and am trying to  make healthier choices and not eat as much. I'm not drastically cutting any calories, but I'm trying to eliminate the empty calorie snacks throughout the day. I can't think of anything else, and I think I answered all your questions! Hope this all made sense. Thanks again :)


Offline tassie

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Re: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 05:39:02 am »
I wish I could offer some more useful advice, but I don't have any!  My daugher (now 1.5 yrs) and son (now 4 wks) have done EXACTLY the same thing in terms of wanting to feed very frequently at night.  I have found that this time around I am just going with the flow and letting my LO feed as much as he wants in the early evening and I do whatever necessary to try and calm him.  My daugher stopped clustering all by herself at about the 10 week mark (from memory - it was about the same time she started sleeping through)  but it wasn't until about 12+ weeks that her days started to be more organised and predictable.

The only advice I can really give is to try not to stress to much about it, or about trying to have a set routine yet.  A basic EASY definitely helps to organise your day, but it will probably be a bit different every day for a while yet.  I am more relaxed about it second time around, and I can tell you it makes life easier when you're not stressing about every feed or watching the clock!  Your beautiful boy will settle with time :)

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 8 week old hourly cluster feedings at night
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 20:58:07 pm »
Hi there

Thanks for posting all the details. Really helps.  :)

Your EASY looks pretty good but it's important to remember to follow cues, rather than follow strict timings etc. And it seems like you're already doing that / following her cues, which is brilliant.  She may be getting ready for a little more A time (currently on 1h?), so if you felt she was ready to increase, move up by no more than 5 mins per day.

Feeds - I do wonder if you've got a super hungry babe. Also wondering whether LO's finishing the breast fully each time - getting the rich fatty hindmilk which will help them go longer between feeds. At the end of a feed, test your breast to see if it's empty by either gently pressing the areola between your thumb and forefinger - usually there's a few drops even when empty, but look to see how much flow / whether it stops quite quickly. Another way (if you have the pump to hand) is to pump on that breast to see how much comes. If there is still milk there I would try putting LO back on the breast and use http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88759.0 to keep babe interested and using some of the ideas here to keep babe awake for the full feed http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63428.0  If babe refuses, I'd start the next feed on the unfinished breast. If there isn't milk left, offer the second breast - it probably won't get emptied at this feed so restart the next feed on this one too to make sure getting the fattier milk.

For now, keep going on demand and try stretching those feeds very gently (5mins increments). In the late afternoon / evening, cluster feed / block feed so that you know both breasts are getting emptied fully. If you suspect a super hungry day or GS, offer both sides if you're sure the 1st side is empty: the stimulation will boost your supply and that might be what LO is after.

Erm, also wondering if like me, you need a lot of fuel for BFg. Try drinking a large glass of water and grazing through some snacks (nutritionally full) at each BF AND eating meals and drinking as usual for the rest of the day. I grazed through bready snacks (muffins, sandwich etc), fruit (banana was good fuel), 70% chocolate etc. Really helped me. If you can get porridge or something with oats in (or oatmilk) that will help fuel supply too. I needed a lot of fuel.

Some extra links that might be useful; but remember typical doesn't mean all babes - some like more A, others less. Follow cues and use the EASY as a guide. Oh, and don't worry if sometimes EAS doesn't work out - there are lots of times when LOs cues lean towards EAES etc, and that's fine.
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0

Ok, so that leaves me with nursing to sleep. Try to keep babe awake during the feed (can feel impossible at this age I found!), but keeping trying gently and in time, it will come. No hard and fast rules at this age  :)  With DS, I started by making sure he was awake at the end of each feed / nursing session: when he fell asleep, I took him off the breast, sat him on my knee (made his eyes pop open briefly) and tried to gently rouse him from his slumbers (blew across the top of his head really gently, tickled hands, removed layer of clothing etc etc), and then put him back on the breast. If he dozed off again, I'd wake him again. And again - by the 2nd or 3rd time, if he was really tired out or I felt he'd had a good punt at the feed, I ended the feed within a few sucks of him going onto the breast so he ended the feed awake. So, yeh, I rigged it at first  :) with the aim to get him used to coming off the breast awake and satisfied.

Let us know how things are now & what you think of the ideas

Charlotte

Oh, and as pps, go gently on both of you :) It's early days and you've both had hell of a journey; get to know eachother and try to enjoy that time (it's easy to say when I haven't got a newborn!). Don't worry too much about times; watch cues and keep a structure so you both know what's coming next.