18 Month old spirited girl resisting bedtime

[mummypig]

Hi ladies

My little girl was good at going to sleep and has had a consistent bedtime routine since she was about 8 months old.  It has changed a little as she's gotten older, but is pretty much dinner before 6pm, play with daddy till about 6.30, bath/quietplay then teeth, PJs and bedtime story between 6.30 and 7, then we turn on her special rainbow light and she gets big hugs and kisses from one parent, is passed to the other parent who'll put her to bed and she'll say goodnight and give the first parent a kiss at the door.  Whoever's turn it is will then settle her in her cot with her cuddlies, pull her blankies over her, give her a kiss on the nose and she'll kiss our hand and wait for us to put it on our noses and then she'll circle her finger on her hand to show it's sleeptime.

This has always worked for us and when she's too lively, we all go 'shhhhh' and then say 'tip toe, tip toe' to bed, with her joining in.  She'll even tip toe to bed on her own when she's tired.

However, we moved house at the end of October, she had a period of illness just before this and then we had family visit and stay for 3 weeks, plus she's cutting her canines and has recently gone through a development point which has seen her speech come on an amazing amount in just a couple of weeks.

I think all this upheaval is causing issues.  Her nap is still good most days (single nap from around 12-2.30), but she is now waking earlier between 6 and 7, instead of around 7.30am.  Also, every night it's a struggle to get her to go to sleep with perhaps as much as 2 hours of yelling and screaming (on her part!!).  Though generally, when we go in her room she calms down instantly.  We always need to try to get her to stop bouncing on her cot, retrieve her blankets & cuddlies from where she's stashed them and then lay her down again.  Even if she's been rubbing her eyes or yawning and we put her to bed as soon as we see these signs, she's still miraculously wideawake and bouncing round an hour or so later.

This is proving quite difficult for us at the moment because I'm 23 weeks pregnant and have pelvic dysfunction, which means I'm usually desperate to sit down and relax before heading to bed before 10pm.  My husband has an early start and long commute every day, so looks forward to being able to wind down and spend some quiet time together in the evenings, and this is just not possible at the moment.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the fact she's not getting out to run around or do as much walking as we'd like her to be able to do is causing her to be undertired.  We live on a steep hill surrounded by steep hills and I can't drive yet, so with the pelvic dysfunction it's difficult for me to get out with her and take her swimming etc like I used to.

We also want to be able to transition her to her big bed in the new year, so she's not being 'kicked out' of her cot for her little sister to have it, but I can't see that being particularly successful at the moment!

Any suggestions or tales of similar experiences would be greatly received

[deckchariot]

{{{{{hugs}}}} - it sounds like you've got a lot going on right now.  I think most of it is likely due to the move and the illness and the long visitors.  That being said, her routine may need a tweak too.  At 18 mos, sleep needs do drop - the "average" is 1.5 - 2 hrs in the day and 11.5 at night.  So if her nap is still 2.5 hrs, that could have an affect on bedtime.  It looks like she's waking between 6 and 7 and going to bed at 7?  If she's waking at 7, you probably want to aim for bedtime at 7:30.  I'm guessing the EWs now are because of the disrupted nights - she's UT at bedtime, but with all the antics becomes OT so she doesn't sleep well and wakes early. 

I would continue to be super consistent with the bedtime routine - use wi/wo if you need to.  You don't want to create any new props.  I would also start gradually cutting back her nap (just take 15 min off and give her a week or so to see if that helps, if not, take another 15 off).

hth
michelle

[mummypig]

THanks for your reply Michelle

When I read the post I'd written, I realised that we were expecting her to still sleep 12 hours at night, but were also expecting her to be awake 5 hours in the morning, sleep until she was ready to wake up (getting her up if she was approaching a 3 hour nap) and then expecting her to still go to bed at 7 and sleep!

I'd already reduced her daytime nap to 2 hours before I read your post today and it has stopped the early wakings.  I just need to bear in mind that she needs a 5-2-5 day, so if she's up longer in the morning and we allow her to sleep later or longer for her nap, that she will need to go to bed later on.

Makes me realise how important it is that we constantly review our little ones' sleep needs, so that we adjust their routines gradually as they need it rather than once things start to go a bit wonky!

[deckchariot]

that's the whole idea behind BW - well done!!!  You're doing a great job!!!

[mummypig]

I think I need to rethink the whole 5-2-5 thing actually!!

She's waking up herself after 2hours of naptime and still goes down fine generally 5 hours after waking, however, we're still having an absolute min of 1 hour of 'party time' in her room before she goes down at night.  More often 1.5-2 hrs.  Sometimes she plays quietly and then goes off on her own, but mostly she copes for 40 mins or so before she starts yelling until someone goes in and helps her resettle.  Sometimes she will go off after the first resettle, but then wakes screaming from what seems to be night terrors after one or 2 sleep cycles.

Sleeping through still good but morning wakings erratic and anywhere between 6am and 7.30am.

This is all even with lots of hours of some serious activity and freshair during the day.  She's been spending a couple of hours a day running around playparks PLUS going for long walks, yet shows very little sign of being tired and in fact appears to have boundless energy.

My DH is now saying we need to leave her to CIO, despite knowing my views on that and I'm starting to feel tempted.  Last night was hard because I'd slept badly the night before, gotten up at 6.30, had a busy day and was in pain and exhausted, was late getting her dinner so she was hungry and spent an hour complaining then I had to try and persuade her to eat it (she wasn't happy with what I gave her and threw it on the floor at first, but then DH distracted her with Peppa Pig on DVD!).  Went to bed okay like normal, yet 40 mins later (5 mins after my DH went off on his MTB) she started yelling until I went in and it took me another 40 mins and 3 interventions where I was getting increasingly irritated and therefore stern with her, before she went to sleep.

I was left stressed and exhausted, in tears because I felt bad for getting so wound up, but unable to relax.  I wasn't calm enough to sleep until 11pm, when I fell asleep straight off but had another bad night and was woken by her screaming at 6am.  Normally I can manage to change her nappy, offer a drink and resettle her, but she clung to me screaming and I gave up after 15mins.

I feel like there are a million things I can try (increasing the A time, reducing the nap to 1 hour, putting her bedtime back, bringing it forward, even more activity, less??! etc), but at the moment I just don't know where I am let alone what to do!

Must have a coffee and try to sit down and think about it

[deckchariot]

{{{{{hugs}}}}} I"m sorry it all seems to be going pear shaped for you at the moment.  What is the bedtime routine you're currently doing with her?  And when you leave, is she asleep or does she fall asleep on her own after you leave?  I'm wondering if she's not falling asleep right away, but then after 40ish min, she's still awake, so then she calls for you.  It's possible she's UT at bedtime, but then because she doesn't go to sleep right away, she becomes OT and then the trouble settling begins.  OR she's falling right to sleep because she's OT and then wakes after 1 sleep cycle.  It's not always easy to tell - so, if you think she's not falling to sleep when she goes to bed, I'd say try shortening her nap just 15 min and see if that helps.  If you are pretty sure she is falling straight to sleep, then I'd say bring her bedtime 15 min earlier.

That being said, it could just be developmental - is she teething?  Here's a link on nightmares/night terrors if you think that might be part of the issue:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=109770.0

What are you doing when she calls out for you?  How are you resettling her?  Please, please do not do CIO - especially at this age, you can really communicate to her that her cries do not matter, and I know you don't want to do that.  I've found wi/wo to work really well - you come to comfort - using only your voice and a key phrase (we say "it's time for night night, you need to go night night"), but no physical contact (which can so easily turn into a prop).  If she's calling out for interaction, then wi/wo usually works pretty quickly.

hang in there!!

[deb]

Definitely agree with not doing CIO. A kid who's afraid to go to bed is no fun to deal with, especially not with SPD!!!!

[mummypig]

Thanks for the replies ladies

Other than for a couple of weeks when she hit a development point at 3 months and all her senses 'turned on and tuned in', we have always put her down awake and allowed her to fall asleep on her own. 

I used to religiously follow an EASY routine, but after she went to one nap a day just after 1 year, we had to bring her bedtime forward to 6pm for a while for her to cope.  It worked wonders and she would be asleep within 30 mins - wow, it was nice having all that time to ourselves!  After a couple of months 6pm was too early and we moved it back, in stages, to 7pm. 

The start of her bedtime routine depends on when she woke from her nap.  I was allowing her to nap until she woke, often 12-3pm, but cut that back to a 2 hour nap and will wake her if she doesn't wake on her own.  Usually she does and is all bright, cheery and raring to go.

So, if she wakes at 2, bedtime is 7 and her evening goes like this:
play with daddy until dinner at around 5.30 (they might go to the park, build with her blocks or play with her little people or playdough)
6.00 finish dinner and quiet time (we call it tippy toe time!) begins.  Freyja may have a bath during this time, or just do quiet activities like reading and chatting
6.30 last trip to the loo, get washed and teeth brushed and into PJs
6.45 tip toe into her bedroom where she'll choose a book and one of us reads to her (we take turns), one story then the other parent comes in and gives her a big hug and a kiss whilst the first one turns on her special rainbow night light (auto fade after 10 mins), then she goes to the first parent who gives her a hug and a kiss, she says night night to the second parent and closes her bedroom door, then the first parent tucks her into bed with her iggle and poopy bunny, says 'night night Freyja, it's time to go to sleep now, shhhhh' and blows her a kiss before leaving

Usually she appears sleepy and will yawn or rub her eyes when we put her in the cot (getting our hopes up!).  If she shows signs of being sleepy before her normal bedtime, we've tried getting her into bed at 6.45 or even 6.30, but the same thing happens.

She used to chat to herself before falling asleep about 30-40 mins later, so it has always taken her a while to sleep at night.  Daytime she pretty much always goes to sleep immediately for her nap.

Now she chats, excitedly giggles, yells, tries to reach her toys to pull them in, gets out of her covers and can't tuck herself in again so she gets annoyed and calls out until someone comes to her.  If she's upset or distressed we go to her frequently and almost always have to tuck her in again (she'll hand us a blanket and say 'there you go' then lay down herself, grab her cuddlies and wait to be covered).  If she's calm she may call out after 30 mins, then we go to her, but some nights when she's calm and doesn't call out, we've tried just leaving her to play & chat to herself, but this still takes her around 1.5hours to go to sleep.

Very rarely she'll be quiet enough for us to think she's gone to sleep and woken up after 1 sleep cycle, refreshed and ready for another 5 hours of playing, but usually she's noisy enough for us to know she's wide awake.

I've gone in and found her wearing a sombrero and bouncing in her cot, cuddling her doll I thought I'd put way out of reach, pretending her toy dinosaur (also meant to be out of reach!) is biting her nose and going 'raaarrr!', carefully placing all her covers on the end of the cot like we do during the day and the past couple of days, she's yelled out because she's managed to partially remove her PJs and is now stuck with her top over her eyes, or an arm in a trouser leg!

At the moment, she seems to be making no move to go to sleep until about the 1.5hour mark, she'll call out and we go to her, tuck her in again and she goes down after 15 mins.

I had thought that she was undertired because I can't take her out as much as I used to and she doesn't socialise as much now, but we had her grandparents here for 3 weeks and we were out doing stuff every day.  Then her dad was off for 2 weeks and we would take her to the park etc in the am and then for long walks or something in the pm, then he had another week off over xmas and we concentrated our efforts on making sure she had lots of activity and socialising - it made no difference!  I am more tired than she is!!

Yes, she is teething (eye teeth have now broken through), but she also seems to have been going through a big development point over the past couple of months with her language, understanding and communication skills surging ahead.

Rarely we've had days where her nap has been cut to 1 hour because we've had to go out and she's coped admirably.  In those cases she is clearly tired come bedtime and we've bought it forward to make up for the short nap, she has gone down fine...??

[LucySol]

Hi!! thanx for your pm.you are so right,they really are similar! how have things been the last few days any better? We are down to 1 hr now and a 7pm bedtime and things are better tho it was 6am this morning so im not sure whether i need to re think things again.really dont want to cut her nap to 45 mins so wondered whether to push bedtime slightly later.

its hard when so many other lo on here are still sleeping so much..it makes you feel you are doing things wrong.im finding it hard to get my head round cutting her sleep when i have tried for so long to get her to have a decent nap!

[mummypig]

Hi Lucy - sorry for the complete delay in replying :*)

I was busy being pregnant, having dd2 and trying to cope!

dd1 dropped the naps completely.  Bedtime was bought forward to 6pm to cope and generally all is well.  She tends to sleep about 13 hours overnight.  There are some days when she could really do with that nap, but only once has she succumbed and fell asleep watching The Many Adventures of Winnie The Pooh - I almost went into shock.

We are now moving forward to 7-7.30pm on occassion.  We just go with her cues really.  It means we can eat together as a family again, which is lovely, but with the later bedtimes and a now 3 1/2 month old, I'm finding that I have less and less time to relax in the evening.

We're doing nothing wrong.  Kids just need different amounts of sleep and that's it.  Have to remember that the scales are just averages.  Hard to get that through your head when you've been coping with a screaming toddler who's OT, but there it is

Hope everything settled down for you and that things are now going well.  Teething, illness and general upsets excepted of course!