Need help but not sure EASY is the problem!

[*Jo*]

I'm surprisingly not worried about the crying.

You may not be, but Honey, I am. with reflux you want to make sure they dont cry. You cant leave him to "exhaust himself" thats pretty unfair on him, hes just a baby.
The other day you said you were worried about the crying and today you say you arent, what has changed?

You dont explain the type of cry, is it a mantra cry or is it an "I need you" cry

There have been other suggestions made, will you consider the other options given to you? the elimination diet, waiting out the reflux meds etc

also I wouldnt be extending A time if you feel he is OT, if anything at this age cut it back

[besjoux]

Again, not "leaving him" to exhaust himself. As I said before, when he's OT it doesn't matter what I do he cries. And I have left him briefly to check on my toddler which was a quick run down the stairs but that's it. And I have put him down when the crying while I was holding him was frustrating me enough that I knew I needed a break. But the crying does not "worry" me. In addition, we are trying reflux meds, that doesn't mean he was medically diagnosed with reflux. So please, stop with the guilt trip....I am doing the very best I can for both of my children safely and sanely. I'll be the first to admit I am not the most patient person and (for that reason) I know my limits as to when I NEED to take a break. Putting the pressure on me to attend to my child when I am frustrated is not in his best interest. I have to make that clear, when I need a break from the crying I take a break.....I  know my limits and that's very important, moreso, than worrying about a little crying. I'm only human and I'm certainly not abusing my child, ok? That being said, when I have had to leave him I only do so to count to 10 and regroup....it's not for an endless amount of time.  Then I can hold him again and let him cry in my arms or in the swing while I shhhhh him.

Why I think it's OT that makes his cry? Yesterday I tried to extend A times and the first morning attempt messed up the whole day. He quickly became OT and could not settle. 3 days ago in the AM I nursed, changed diaper and immediately went to wind down....he was not OT all day, it was a great day. However, he woke 7 times that night. I am trying to tweak EASY to understand my son better so that I can read his signals better when he is ready to sleep. He's really an angel baby and it's very hard to read his signs as he can be smiling and OT.

[RachelC]

{{{hugs}}} Julie.  I don't believe anyone here is trying to guilt trip you at all.  I can see where Jo was coming from, though, when she said

You cant leave him to "exhaust himself"

You did say

I'm just letting him cry to let him wear himself out.

I know things can be taken out of context, I just want you to see where Jo's comment came from.  Trust me, we all want to help you and if we could, we would be there in person to be another set of hands  

I will admit that I have not read everything that has been going on, but there are a few things I would like to ask...

You (and others) have mentioned reflux.  I understand your first had reflux, was it treated?  How long have you been treating lo2?  What does the dr say, if lo hasn't been diagnosed, but was willing to try meds?

I also wonder about PPD.  I am worried about YOU and how you are coping.  I struggled through the first 11 months of dd2's life not totally realizing I was suffering from PPD, but once I recognized the signs and sought help, things got much clearer.  I am not saying you have PPD for sure, but it's worth looking into.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=43462.0  

More {{{hugs}}}  I truly feel for you, although I didn't have refluxers, I did have a baby that needed a lot of attention while dd1 needed things too.  It's hard, no one is going to tell you it's easy.

[besjoux]

 I have been depresed but I'm waiting until I get some sleep before I see if I need help with PPD. Lack of sleep affects me significantly and I felt better yesterday emotionally.....a lot better. I also did the Edinburgh even while exhausted and it did not detect PPD. I do, however, wear my heart on my sleeve so I tend to say everything I think...not a trait I am always proud of.

I only wanted to mention that I am not "leaving" my child......leaving him and letting him cry are 2 different things. I do let him cry.

Reflux..... he wakes/woke frequently and doesn't like to be held in the football position. He is not truly a fussy baby (he's actually really laid back) unless he is OT. If I allow him to be OT he WILL cry and I have tried to intervene and it only prolonged the crying. Whereas when I just told him it was ok and shhh'd him until he could settle himself we did better. He's actually doing great with self settling (sucks his hand and falls asleep). So, he COULD have reflux but the crying (IMO) is NOT due to the reflux. His night waking NEVER results in crying....he has never cried in the middle of the night.  He was on zantac but he got worse with nightwaking. Now he is taking Prevacid now and has been taking it for almost a week.

[~inbalance~]

So, he COULD have reflux but the crying (IMO) is NOT due to the reflux. His night waking NEVER results in crying....he has never cried in the middle of the night.  He was on zantac but he got worse with nightwaking. Now he is taking Prevacid now and has been taking it for almost a week.

I just wanted to add that F hardly ever has or does cry at night and I still know he has reflux and that he is in pain.  So your LO has been on the prevacid for almost a week, and you are starting to see better nights?  Like I said, took about a week to see results with F, and it was an obvious difference.  If that didn't confirm reflux to me I don't know what else would.

I'm not sure why you would want to wait until you're getting more sleep to address the PPD if it is a problem now.  Is there something you are worried about?  Whether people would judge you or having to go on medication?  Because I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of, and even if it is just a temporary blip it could really help to just talk to someone about it, kwim?

[*Jo*]

I think some babies deal with reflux differently to others, Caleb would hardly nap yet he was STTN at 8 weeks old, and that I was thankful for, it helped me deal with things a bit better but that didn't mean I was fully coping. There were days I spent every nap time just crying along with him, I would sit in his room patting him while he cried and I would cry, just exhausted at the work it was taking just to get him to nap, once we did get the reflux under control though things improved dramatically.

I want to clarify I wasn't trying to make you feel guilty, I just felt you didn't explain the whole crying issue clearly enough, you had mentioned what Rachel had quoted above and that concerned me and I wanted to know what kind of crying was going on, you weren't clear on that. So moving along from that, what plan do you have in place now? What are we working with?

[besjoux]

So, he COULD have reflux but the crying (IMO) is NOT due to the reflux. His night waking NEVER results in crying....he has never cried in the middle of the night.  He was on zantac but he got worse with nightwaking. Now he is taking Prevacid now and has been taking it for almost a week.

I just wanted to add that F hardly ever has or does cry at night and I still know he has reflux and that he is in pain.  So your LO has been on the prevacid for almost a week, and you are starting to see better nights?  Like I said, took about a week to see results with F, and it was an obvious difference.  If that didn't confirm reflux to me I don't know what else would.

I'm not sure why you would want to wait until you're getting more sleep to address the PPD if it is a problem now.  Is there something you are worried about?  Whether people would judge you or having to go on medication?  Because I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of, and even if it is just a temporary blip it could really help to just talk to someone about it, kwim?

Correct, I agree the STTN could be due to the meds (esp since he went from 7 wakings to 1). But I'm saying the crying is the same (not that there is an excess of crying...just that it exists). Does that make sense? And the pattern with the crying is that I'm timing his naps wrong. This AM I did a really short A time and he went to sleep peacefully, even after a huge feed (I was engorged). In fact, this AM was his biggest feed yet because he STTN.

So, I came to the EASY board to understand better the timing of his naps because I don't feel I am doing it right.

And I don't feel I have true PPD. I feel I have lack of motivation, leading to depression caused from lack of sleep. I feel great when I've had sleep.

[*Liz*]

It really does sound like a dramtic improvement Julie - which really does make me think the prevacid has helped as well. It sounds similar to what Megan has done on the Zantac (not as great mind - I think she may need prevacid too  ).

Babies do cry - that is what they do for any which reason - if you feel a lot of the crying is related to OT then you are likely right. And I guess what we are saying is that untreated reflux is what is causing your bad nights, and then often leading in to OT during the day. I must say that is what makes my Megan scream really - OT - but that is after have all those 30 min naps where she has woken due to pain. I know it is discomfort as I hear her regurgitating, or passing wind, but these episodes make her fussy or squeal rather than cry.

I see what you are thinking about sleeping peacefully after a big feed - but he is sleeping elevated in the swing. Could very well be totally different in you plopped him in the crib.

I'm pretty sure I have said it before - but I really do believe that a babies personality has a huge impact on their reflux behaviour. So if Caleb is an angel he will not be affected in the same way as a touchy iyswim?

Looks like your LO needs a short first A time then. That is handy to know, isn't it? So routine wise the question is how to keep on track during the day and avoid unsettled evenings.

Just to mention one more thing about sleep deprivation and PPD - yes they are very strongly linked - of course they are - but you have to bear in mind that it may be months before you get consistant good sleep. And even then you may find yourself dealing with a preschooler waking with nightmares, or whatever. I know your toddler sleeps more than mine does, but I think it is in some ways risky to decide that my whole emotional well being and mental health depends on me getting something that I know I often will not be able to have because I have children to care for. So sometimes you have to try and tackle both issues together - sure work on your LOs routine and HIS sleep - but also work on ways to help you that are not dependent on what someone else does. I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well here - but I hope you see what I mean.

I am not a very patient person either, and that is something I have to work very hard at with young children around.

[besjoux]

I see what you are thinking about sleeping peacefully after a big feed - but he is sleeping elevated in the swing. Could very well be totally different in you plopped him in the crib.

Yes, but he also sleeps really well with me during his afternoon nap. He lays down and feeds and then he has a nap with me. It's my snuggle time with him. He did this at night too. Sometimes he didn't sleep well but he also didn't sleep well in the swing that night as well as the bassinet. Soooo, who knows. Sometimes I think these kids really throw us for a loop.

Today our 1st nap went really well and then he had his vaccines and they took FOREVER. He was awake a really long time. After that he only catnapped and was SO fussy. My last son (again totally opposite) slept all day after vaccines. Is it common for them to be fussy and not sleep instead? Or could he just be OT from the doctor's office and lack of 2nd nap? 2 days ago he was very easy to get to nap and since he started STTN he has suddenly become very difficult with naps. Is that also common?

[Mrs Coops]

Julie I don't know if there is a 'normal' with babies but if I had the choice I would go with crap naps but sttn!!!
 
Sorry GTG I have a moaning toddler on my hands!

[mkaes]

Julie, DD2 was a crappy napper to start, but sleeping through the night. I think day and night sleep develop at different times (night before day for most babies). As far as fussiness and reflux, DS is pretty laid back as well. Some of the signs I noticed with him were fussiness then wet burps, frequent hiccops long after he ate, I could see him regurgitating and then swallowing, fussiness and arching during some feeds (not all), restlessness during naps and waking up screaming (sometimes with spit up, sometimes not). DD2 had some of the same symptoms, some different. 

[*Liz*]

Well it I'd possible that a great nights sleep will increase the A he can handle really - perhaps not first thing - but for the rest of the day.

Both my kids gave been very fussy after vaccines - I remember J having fevers and screaming for hours after his first set. M was super tired and very fussy.

[Kimberlina]

I've not read the whole post, love - but am worried about PPD for you as well. Just trawled all my old posts from the PPD thread to find this quote, which I think applies. (From EllenS on http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=174688.0)

"The thing I learned about depression during my mom's hospice and death is, you really can't separate your circumstances from 'depression', like it's a whole separate thing."

Yes, you are tired. Yes, that will make you feel differently - but this is part of the package. And it's possible you need help NOW. I'm taking PPD meds now, and they have made the WORLD of difference.

And also I'm sure I read somewhere that mums of refluxers are more likely to suffer with PPD...

[besjoux]

I SWYM about depression not  being related to circumstances. I agree and definetly keep on top of it. I'm pretty forward with my feelings which does help a lot. I did score low on the Edinburgh test and really don't feel this is PPD.

Anyways, for the EASY we did great today with shorter (45 min) A times and that includes eating. Afternoon he's always awake and does get a bit fussy but goes to bed pretty easily.

I just don't get A times with these younger ones. I had the same problem with DS, except that he WAS really fussy in the evening.

[mkaes]

Julie, I am glad Caleb seem to be sleeping better for you. Sleep makes a huge difference!!