3.5mo waking at 5am - is he hungry or ready to STTN?

[clairebear79]

DS is now 3.5mo & has been on a 3 hour EASY, up 7am bed 7pm since he was 10wo.  We had got down to 1 NF at 3.30-4.30am but after moving him from moses basket into his cot in his own room 2 weeks ago it became around 5am.

We have been trying to work out if he was actually hungry at 5am, as sometimes, by the time his bottle was ready, he had fallen back to sleep.  So last week we didnt rush in when he woke, & 10 mins later he settled himself back to sleep until 6.45am.  So we thought RESULT! he's dropped the NF & is STTN!  To make sure he maintained his feed levels we increased each daytime feed by 1oz.

Anyway, over the last week, he's been STTN but his waking time has gradually gotten earlier each day & he's back to waking around 4.45-5am.  We have tried to see if he would settle himself (nope) then gone in to try to settle him - he cooed, kicked his legs & smiled when I went in (I could see this in the dark!).  I tried ssh/pat (I cup my hand on his face instead as he sleeps on his back), then dummy but he was WIDE AWAKE & so we decided to get up & start the day from there.  So each day this has got earlier meaning bed time has also got earlier.

But his entire routine has suddenly gone out of the window, his daytime naps have gone really badly (i'll do another post about that), he is doing EASA EASA (no Y time for me), & he has become horribly OT as a result. Yesterday & the day before we had A LOT of screaming from DS & A LOT of crying from mummy in absolute despair. 

This morning when he woke at 5am I decided to just get up, feed him as a NF & put him back to bed, like we had been doing previously.  He settled ok but then 10mins later was calling & then crying as I think he wanted to get up & play.  I gave him the dummy & he settled to sleep until 7.30.  But the rest of the day has been awful - he has hardly napped at all & took ages to settle at bedtime - finally going to sleep with the dummy (another post about that!)

My questions are:

Could the loss of routine be caused by us geting up at 5am -is he not getting enough night time sleep & so starting the day off tired?  Or is it more likely that the poor daytime naps & OT are causing the EW? 

Should we treat him as STTN & the 5am waking as the start of his day, or should I just continue to treat the 5am waking as a NF & try to put him back to sleep?  He has shown he can get to 7am without a NF, but don't know if that was a one-off & he's not ready to do it full time?  Its really hard to tell now as he is no longer displaying clear hunger cues & the only way to be sure is if he starts full blown crying which I'd rather not get to if I can help it.

I do realise he is doing really really well sleeping from 7pm to 5am but 5am feels too early to start the day & 5pm too early to end it.  I would do it though if its what's best for DS. 

The last few days have been so awful, I feel in total despair as I'm not sure how to get back on track.

If anyone can offer any help or advice I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

[Tweakster]

HI there, what is your desired wake time?  Could you post what your day normally looks like for us with EAS format.  personally I would not start the day at 5 because EW is a really hard habit to get out of (tell me, my DS is nearly 21 mths STILL waking between 5:30/6 every morning!) and so I would also treat as a NW and go from there.  But best to visit the routine to see if a tweak will help.

There is also a huge GS at around 4 mths and then again about 6 weeks later so really you just have to ride the wave until 12 mths - they grow like weeds in the first 12!

I would not expect that he can go without a night feed or two at this age, so it's ok to feed and put back to sleep without it becoming habit.  He's bottle fed?

We had 2x NW: 1 around 1 a.m and another at 4 or 5 until he was nearly 5.5 mths.

(((hugs)))

[clairebear79]

Hiya

Thanks for your reply - advice much appreciated!

Our desired wake up time is 7am.  Our routine (if he wakes at 7) is currently looking like this:

E: 7am
A:
S:8.30-8:15am
A:

E: 10am
A:
S: 11.30-12.15am
A:

E: 1pm
A:
S: 2.30-3.15pm
A:

E: 4pm
A:
CN: 5.30-6ish
A: 6.00pm (bath)
E: 6.30pm
S: 7pm

E: 5am (sometimes)

If he wakes earlier we have just shifted the entire routine to the 1 or 2 hours earlier.  Since he started sleeping longer at night his daytime naps are now 45mins & I just cannot extend so we are doing EASA at the moment.

He is bottle fed, & he's a big baby, almost 4 mths & weighs 16lb 9oz.

I saw my HV last week - he suggested the EW & irritability might be hunger related & to try a faster flow teat on his bottles. 

I'd been giving him 5x 7oz bottles/day + 1 at night if he woke.  He generally drank 5-6oz & took approx 30mins to finish each feed, using no 2 Avent teats.  HV thought DS might not be finishing his feeds due to being frustrated/bored with the slow flow. 

I got some no 3's 5 days ago.  He drained every single 7oz feed that day & the next so I increased feeds to 8oz.  He is now draining 8oz bottles in 10mins flat!  Plus he has slept through the last 2 nights to 6.30-7am.

I cannot believe the difference in his feeding - I thought he'd been satisfied as he was leaving some of each feed, but maybe I'd misread his signals, assuming it can't be hunger.  Thought I'd share that incase anone else has a similar experience.

We did try your suggestion to treat EW as NF when he woke early a couple of mornings at 5am - he went back to sleep afterwards til 7.30am, so he must have needed the sleep & that might have contributed to him being OT.
 
However, if he wakes at 6am should I still treat as NF?  I'm not sure he'd go back to sleep as it's so near to normal wake up time & he's had 11hrs sleep.  Also how much do I feed him here - if I give him a full feed I'm not sure he'd take a full feed only an hour later at 7am?

Thanks.x

[*Amy*]

Is he ready for 3.5hour EASY? our LO seem to be the same age and although mine is BF we have had a very similar routine with my LO STTN from 10weeks - however in the past few days she has also been waking at 5am and I posted a thread asking if this was the start to my day!
So today I have tried 3.5 hours EASY and will see how that goes! I had to have two naps in each EASY cycle as DD doesn't nap for very long!

[clairebear79]

Hi Amy

Not sure on the 3.5hr EASY yet.  He seems to be hungry for his feeds at 3hours still & although his short naps mean his A time is extended, he is tired & irritable by the afternoon so I think he is struggling with the longer A time & still needs that sleep (why do they fight it so??!!)

Having said that he woke at 5am this morning, I fed him 8oz, & he has  left 1-2oz of each feed since for the rest of the day.  Could be to do with his immunisations he had this morning, but then he wasn't crying for his feeds at 3hrs like he usually does.  So maybe I should try him on 3.15 hr EASY & see how he takes that before doing the 3.5hrs.

You will have to let me know how you get on with it & I'll consider taking the plunge!!!

thanks.xx