Activity adjustment needed?

[katiush]

My DS will be 7 weeks tomorrow. I've been keeping logs, and I've noticed that sometimes DS is up in the middle of the night, hanging out, or doesn't fall asleep in the evenings - usually lies awake after I thought he was asleep. He will eventually either fall asleep on his own, or start crying out. I'm wondering if he's either overtired, or needs activity tweaking, and would like someone to look at my EASY
Here is our EASY from today:
NW: 12:30 with gas
E: 1:30 am
NW sometime in between with gas
E: 4:30 am
E 6:50 am START OF DAY (ate a LONG time -2X usual time)
A: swing
S: 8:00 (8:09 in crib pretty much sleeping, patted till 8:13)
   woke at 9:15, slept in arms for rest of nap
E: 9:45
A: don't remember
S: 10:40 (took a long time to fall asleep)
   woke at 12:00, pat/shushed, but didn't work.
E: 12:25
A: mat on floor and bath, some exercises
S: 1:25 asleep by 1:32, patted till 1:38
       kept waking up. took into bed with me at 2:30 so I could nap. Slept fitfully.
E: 3:30
A: don't remember
S: 4:30 slept whole time
E: 5:30
A: lounge chair during our dinner
S: 6:39 (waited too late? would not fall asleep at all)
E: 7:20
S: 7:40
At 8 pm, still not sleeping. Fell asleep on his own eventually.

Maybe today was just a bad day...but just wanted some input. Thanks!

[katiush]

Here is what happened last night:

E: 10:45 Dream Feed
12:30 I woke up because DS was making noises, just awake in his bed. pacifier in mouth, fell asleep
1:30 I woke up because DS was making noises, just awake in his bed. pat/shush, fell asleep right away
2:30 same thing, but starting to cry out (more of a hey, I'm here cry). Fed him, because I figured it's time to feed.
4:30 I woke up because DS was making noises, just awake in his bed. pat/shush, and put him in bed with me because I just wanted to sleep. Didn't really help because DS kept making noises and stirring in his sleep
6:00 eyes closed, but starting to cry. Fed him.
7:20: awake and smiling. Fed him at 7:30. Start of day.

What is going on?! Why is he wide awake in the middle of the night if he's napping during the day?

[katiush]

Oops, forgot to mention that Tuesday night, our night was very similar to this.

[Jiinx]

Hey hun
 With the gas - just wondering if some of it could be alleviated from eliminating certain things from your diet? Forgive me if I've already or someone has already mentioned this ...

 In terms of his naps, and A times..I think his day is a little bit too long and he may be just getting an extra cycle of sleep where he should be sleeping.

 I noticed his first A is pretty much average of his age - 1 hour and 15 minutes or around. I think his second A was shorter? ...and he probably wasn't tired enough and woke up and didn't feel the need to back to sleep.

When they do short nap, do try to keep the second A shorter - all there's time for probably is a feed and a change, really.

I don't remember much of the wakings at night but gas was a big factor

HTH?

[katiush]

With the gas - just wondering if some of it could be alleviated from eliminating certain things from your diet? Forgive me if I've already or someone has already mentioned this ...Smiley

Hi, yes, I've already eliminated dairy, onions, garlic, celery, etc from my diet, and try to do caffeine. I only drink one mug of caffeinated tea a day, anyway, but I try not to.

In terms of his naps, and A times..I think his day is a little bit too long and he may be just getting an extra cycle of sleep where he should be sleeping.

Can you explain more? I see he has 3 naps, and two cat naps and two cluster feeds. I thought that was the routine from 7ish to 7 ish.

I noticed his first A is pretty much average of his age - 1 hour and 15 minutes or around. I think his second A was shorter? ...and he probably wasn't tired enough and woke up and didn't feel the need to back to sleep.

When they do short nap, do try to keep the second A shorter - all there's time for probably is a feed and a change, really.

Yes, that's why some of his activity times seem shorter - because he was already awake before he ate....I was keeping his "active" activity to one hour, in order to give him 15 minutes to fall asleep, so his activity would be 1 hr 15 minutes. Yesterday I was trying for 1 hr 10 minutes downstairs, and he was falling asleep faster, but waking at about the hour mark during the nap.
Last night was a repeat of the wakeful night! I am so exhausted....older kids are watching a movie, and I'm in tears from non-sleep.

[Jiinx]

Quote from: Jiinx on Yesterday at 10:22:30 PM
In terms of his naps, and A times..I think his day is a little bit too long and he may be just getting an extra cycle of sleep where he should be sleeping.

Can you explain more? I see he has 3 naps, and two cat naps and two cluster feeds. I thought that was the routine from 7ish to 7 ish.

My apologies. I wasn't sure what the evening routine was - then if he was put to sleep at 6:40 that night then yes, your routine was fine. I didn't do cluster feedings so I wasn't sure how that approach goes.

*hugs* I'm so so sorry you had an exhausting night. It is so hard those first few months Especially with more kids around.
Aside from the slight tweaking in his As (increasing one by 5 minutes...) I can't see anything else wrong with his routine.

How did it go today? If you like we can go through his EASY again...just let me know when exactly he wakes and goes to sleep

[katiush]

Will these sleepless night ever end? :/
In the last two days, I've adjusted activity times - I've actually stopped clock watching and have just been following DS's cues. He starts complaining tired at almost exactly 1 hr 15 minutes, and waiting for him to start complaining makes putting him down for naps much easier. He falls asleep almost right away, and either sleeps the whole time, or wakes at 10 min or one hour. He's not too hard to pat back to sleep (sometimes doesn't work at one hour).
The first night after adjusting his activity time, the night wakings went from 7 to 4, which was really good. But last night, it was back to being awake pretty much all night! I can count my blessings that at least he's not crying all that time, but he is awake and making noises, keeping me up and worried that he's not sleeping.
Here was yesterday's EASY and last night's adventures:

NW: 12:30 wide awake, but had gas. back to sleep quickly (patted)
E: 2:30
NW: 3:30 awake, but sleepy
E: 5:00, put in my bed at 5:40 b/c kept crying
E: 7:45
A: gym mat and bouncer
S: 8:00 (asleep by 8:09) slept whole time
E: 10:40
A: church
S: 12:00ish in arms and car seat
   woke after 45 min or an hour (during lunch in church hall)
E: 1:30
A: nothing, really
S: 2:00
   woke at 10 min. pat to sleep
   woke at 1 hour pat to sleep
E: 4:30
A: gym mat, tummy time, lounge chair
S: 5:50
E: 6:40
A: in arms
S: 7:20
   still awake at 8:15
   fell asleep some time before 9 pm
E: 10:45 Dream Feed (2 oz)

12/13
NW: 12:30 (I think I just stuck a pacifier in his mouth and he fell asleep. can't remember)
E: 2:30 (was wide awake)
NW: 3:30 (basically awake all night, hanging out)
NW: 5:00
E: 5:45
never went back to sleep
I left the room at 6:37, because I couldn't take his cute little gurglings anymore
maybe he slept, maybe he didn't, I don't know at this point
DS started complaining around 7:45, DH went to be with him. never fell asleep
E: 8:30 (start of day)
A: blanket on floor

So that's where we are so far today.
Our day usually starts at 7, but I just couldn't do it today, so I just fed him 3 hours after I fed him last, which is why our day started so late.
Now I'm confused as to what I should be doing today! I'm going to try following DS's cues, but am not sure when to end the day now.

[Jiinx]

Could he be going through a growth spurt? Is he hungrier than usual during the day?

[katiush]

I did think about that, but he's not hungrier during the day...he was last week, but not now. could he be coming off a growth spurt? At night, he's not even complaining of hunger - I'm just feeding him cause he's awake, I'm awake, and it's been 3-4 hours.

[Jiinx]

Hey I just read and wanted to post another link:

* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

Deb, who did this post, really helped me and my daughter. Mind you, I had 45 minute naps for months. I just thought that's what it was suppose to be like until they're 6 months.

How was today? Are his A times around 1 hour 15-20 minutes?

sarah

[katiush]

Activity times are about 1 hr 15 minutes. If one cycle is longer than that, usually DS shows tired signs earlier the next cycle (sometimes at 1 hour). Last night was a little bit better, but DS was sleeping fitfully, which kept waking me up thinking he was awake again. The night went like this:
E: 5:45 pm
A:
S: a little after 7:00 (topped off at 7)
NW/E: 9:00
E: 1:00 am
E: 3:30 am
NW: 4:45
NW: 6:00
E: 7:00 am

I read the link you sent - do you think DS needs more calories during the day? He's a pretty big kid: he was born 9 lb 9 oz, and has gained about a lb (if not more) a week since coming home from the hospital. He is going to be 8 weeks on Friday, and last week weighed almost 14 lbs...

As for EASY - today is totally whacked out because I took DD to story hour, DS slept for 45 minutes, and after that kept crying and crying. I fed him at 3 hours and put him right down, but we have to leave soon for DS1's parent teach conference, so he's going to have a SAE cycle now.

[Jiinx]

If he's going through a growth spurt, then your milk will adjust in a couple of days. Sweetie, with wakings like those I'm starting to think he is in discomfort from something. Reflux maybe?

I really hope whatever it is that you get a better day/night. If you're following good A times, and feeding him every 3 hours...is his A times too overstimulating maybe? Sometimes that can cause sleeps to be fitful.

[katiush]

I don't think he has reflux - he is fine during the day, and doesn't complain when spitting up. But who knows - maybe it's the silent kind? But he sleeps a good stretch in the beginning of the night, and the problems come later on in the night...
To regain some sanity, we've pushed DS's bedtime later, because I noticed that he sleeps better in the beginning of the night. I'm thinking that maybe he's been so fitful in the early morning because he's not ready for a full 12 hour sleep, and we can't start our day at like 5 am? So last night he did an extra 3 hours cycle with a cluster feed at 9 pm (right to bed after cf), and he woke to feed at 12, 4, and 7. We started the day at 7 because he was wide awake. Do you think this is okay to do - making his bedtime later? We did it again tonight, and we'll see how tonight goes. I don't want to be starting on anything bad, though. Please let me know what you think.

[Jiinx]

bedtime can be later - as long as you're still doing a 12 hour day. So his day would need to start at around 8:30 or 8am if he has a bedtime of, let's say, 9pm...

Are you getting some good advice on the nightwakings board? I wish I knew what the nightwakings were a result of..he's just so tiny and there are so many variables at that age.

He doesn't need to get 12 hours of sleep. Some babies of any age can do fine on 10.5 ...mine does 11 hours and a bit more. So long as he's doing fine during the day, meeting his A times without getting OT...eating well...12 hours is definitely not the goal and STTN is something that will come as he matures and gets older...

[katiush]

Yea, DS1 never slept 12 hours. We would put him down at 8 and he would always wake up at 5. 5 was okay with me back then because I was working, but now that I'm home with the kids (who get up at 7), it's not really a reality 
So, if he isn't getting 12 hours of sleep a night, then his day would have to be longer....ugh, I hate that I know this stuff, because then I feel like I have to fit the mold perfectly, and of course babies don't!

Don't know about the night wakings. I haven't gotten any response from the night waking forum, so still waiting to hear something.