Author Topic: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!  (Read 4414 times)

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Offline murphy76

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Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« on: January 06, 2011, 09:23:42 am »
Our little DS is 11 weeks old, and wakens during the night for some long feeds - last night, he fed for approx 2 hours from 4 am before going back, so I am pretty tired right now and need some help. He has been exclusively breast fed as we had difficulty in getting him to take a bottle, and we have had some success after a few weeks of trying. For the last 6 nights, DH gives him a bottle in the evening, but DS is only taking 2- 2.5 oz and then refuses any more, so I have no option but to breastfeed him to make sure he gets enough. We want to give him a bottle to 'conk' him out for the night, so how much should that be, and would be be better off giving him formula as I have heard that this will fill him up for the night which is pretty much what we need right now?


Offline ~Emma~

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 09:27:16 am »
 Hi honey,

 Its not fact that formula will make your baby sleep any longer I'm afraid. It does take longer to digest yes but it doesn't work for all babies in making them sleep longer.

 Is he only waking once in the night? If so thats fab honey and completely normal for a bub that age. DD is 13 weeks and stiull waking twice.

 Regarding the length of the feed well are you sure your LO is not comfort sucking for part of the feed? I fed DD for an hour last night at one of her wakings and I'm pretty sure the last 15 mins was just comfort suckling!


Offline murphy76

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 09:34:18 am »
thanks for the swift reply Emma, our little DS is feeding twice at night, last night went down at 10.30, woke at 1am for a 20 min feed, and then the 4am feed, during which he was so alert that he must have thought it was time for getting up. I am delighted that he is only up twice, its just the length of time that he is up for.

How much should a baby of 11 weeks be taking on a bottle, as I have no idea given I am breastfeeding? The main thing for us is to get his bedtime routine to include just a bottle and no breast - i am crying out for a bit of 'me' time but feel a little guilty in wanting it.

Offline ~Emma~

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 10:16:04 am »
 Honey dont feel bad for wanting a break, its only natural. I think about 5-6oz but I could be wrong, thats just what the guidelines are on the formula cartons! I think at this point all you can do is offer and LO will take how much they want.

 Have you got your LO on EASY at the moment?


Offline *Amy*

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 10:24:31 am »
Hi Murphy76, sounds like you are doing great!! what is your day time routine like?
2 hours does seem a rather long time for a feed, and I agree with Emma, maybe your LO is comfort suckling.
Post your day time routine and maybe we can help with it
Amy


Offline murphy76

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 13:19:57 pm »
Thanks so much, DS has been on EASY since week 7, and its roughly this:

E - 7.30am,  this morning it was 8am as he had only gone back to sleep at 6am, and i was too tired to waken him (plus i only woke when he cried)
A - 8am - 8.30am - normally playing on mat whilst i pump
S - 8.30 - 9.30 - 20 mins on shh pat - tried the WTS a few mornings ago and he not only woke up, he went hysterical, took 20 mins to calm him before he allowed me to feed him.
E - 9.30/9.45 - 10 - 10.15
A - 10.15 - 10.35/45 - again, on mat, or in bouncer
S - 10.45 - 12.45pm - but only when out of the house in car or in his pram. He has taken to wakening after 45 mins - i am just back from an hour long walk, he woke 45 mins into his sleep and wouldnt go back, bright eyes staring at me and trying to get my attention, then started crying, so did activity when we reached home and now feeding, so my timings are askew. If we do shh pat, its only 45 mins.
E - 12.45 - 1.15
A - 1.15 - 1.45
S - 1.45 - 3.45 on good days, again in car or pram, sometimes wakens after 45 mins and again i struggle to get him back to sleep, so end up feeding him early and its goes full circle. Again, shh pat usually only 45 mins.
E - 4pm on good days, earlier if short sleep
A - 4.30 - 5pm
S - 5 - 6 - this i find to be the easiest shh-pat, as he only naps 45 mins so we are on track
E - 6pm - 7pm - for the last week, my DH has been giving him a bottle of express milk, he is taking some , but only 1.5 - 2.5 oz, and it takes some time, so bathtime has been missed a few times, and other times, its been later
A - 7pm - 7.15 - bath
E - 7.15pm - 8.30pm - as DS is still hungry but wont take any more bottle from DH, the last 2 nights I have given DS the breast for a few mins, then snuck the bottle in, and he has taken 1.5 oz, but no more. He seems to be interested, but only for a limited period - impossible to get him back onto the bottle if he takes a break from it. This is all taking place in our living room.
8.30pm onwards - DS is swaddled as I notice he looks tired, and I take him up to bed when I feed him until any time up until 10.30pm.

He was doing great 10 days ago, when I was EBF, and would have more or less fed him from 7pm onwards, and he would be asleep by 9.30pm. He would then waken around 1.30 / 2am, feed for 30 mins, and then down, and waken again at 4.30/5, feed for 30 mins, and back down until 7.30 am. I was delighted with that, but my issue is that he needs to start taking a bottle. We gave him a few bottles when he was 4 weeks, then stopped as I just assumed he would take it again, but when we tried when he was 8 weeks, he refused it and I began to panic as all I can see is me feeding him until he can take a feeding cup. he refused tommy tippee, Avent, Nuby and now thankfully seems to like Nuk with the brown teat. I have a few offers from MIL, and my sister to look after him whilst DH and I go for dinner / night out, but we are miles away from this it seems.

Sorry if I am steering away from my EASY, its just that I would love for DS to take a bottle from DH or anyone else. DH is suggesting that I just leave the house for the next few evenings, which I am tempted to do, and just be a phone call away if DS is hysterical. Any tips on my EASY routine much appreciated,( i am beginning to think that the shh pat will only ever work for 45mins, max 60 mins for DS) , as well as suggestions on DS taking bottle from anyone but me.
Thank god for forums, eh? DS is now smiling at me, don't you just love when they do that.

Offline *Amy*

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 14:59:08 pm »
Your LO is 11 weeks is that right?
You might try upping his A time by 5/10mins. If he is only doing naps of 45mins then perhaps he is u/t going to bed?? what do you think? do you clock watch or follow his signs?
Is your LO hungry at the 3 hour mark?
Tracy talk about a 12 hour night and 12 hour day.
So if you LO is waking for the day at 8pm, the ideal would be that you have them back in bed by 8pm!
I would also say that perhaps you LO isn't taking the bottle at 6 cause they aren't hungry enough?? what do you think?
What I would do is
cat nap 5 - 6
Then bath at 6.45pm
Eat at 7pm ( here i would offer the bottle!) and swaddle and asleep
Therefore your LO should be in bed by 7.30pm and asleep by 8pm. Obviously this is the ideal!!
If your LO is still refusing the bottle, perhaps have DH try with one of the NW's??
I know you are cluster feeding for the evening but my LO took 5 feeds a day and that was it!! she wouldn't do the cluster feeding!!
what do you think?


Offline murphy76

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 15:40:08 pm »
Aw, Amy, so good of you to reply , really grateful for all your suggestions - you've made my day. DS is indeed 11 weeks and 1 day old.
Just a few questions / comments:

Yes, he could well be u/t going to bed, as at the beginning I was reading his signs, whereas now I put more emphasis on the time he has been awake, so I will concentrate on the cues rather than clock watch, and hopefully this will make a difference.

He is more or less hungry every 3 hours, and sometimes after 2.5 hours - eg this morning he was really hungry after 2.5 hours, whereas now, he is still asleep and its been just over 3 hours since he last fed - I took him for a drive this afternoon, 5 mins later he was asleep, so we came back home and he has been asleep since 2pm, woke at 2.20 but managed to rock him back to sleep as he was in his car seat. Know its not ideal letting him sleep in it, but its where he naps best. So on average, he is hungry around the 3 hours, sometimes before and sometimes after it as I think he's catching up on sleep missed this morning.

Excellent point on the 12 hours, I must bear that in mind - 8am is the latest he will waken, its normally 7.30 ish, so we'll work towards him being in bed 12 hours thereafter.

You have a good point about him not being hungry enough when he wakens after his nap around 6pm - cos I have been putting him on the breast, I just assumed he was hungry and therefore would be hungry enough to take a bottle, so we will do the 7pm feed tomorrow night as DH is home late tonight, but has kindly offered to do this every other night - bliss ! Should this bottle be given by DH to DS downstairs or up in the bedroom? Can I also just check with you - so between 6 and 7, its activity - straight after his nap, activity for 45 mins and then a bath? Makes sense to tire him out at that time now that I think about it. If the 7pm bottle doesnt work, DH will give one of the NW's a go, as we know DS can take a bottle, we just need to master him taking enough for a full feed.

On getting him asleep - I would love some tips on this, as up until now, DS has been falling asleep on the breast, and then I put him into his cot, sometimes successful at first attempt, other times not. so its trial and error. With the bottle, once he has finished it, how do we get him to sleep without having to revert to breast as this will defeat the purpose? Same goes for me breastfeeding him at 7pm if the bottle works for one of the NW's instead of the 7pm feed.

Thanks so so much, you're an angel.

Offline Vicku

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 16:11:13 pm »
Hi there :)

You're getting some fab advice :) Just wanted to jump in and add a few things I thought might help you..

The long night feeds and the hunger after 2.5 hrs could possibly be due to a growth spurt. A lot of babies have one around 12 weeks, so he may be hitting that a little early? Worth bearing in mind and having a look out for. Remember also that they hit a huge GS at 4mos, so expect things to chop and change until after that really.After that most babies stabilise a lot more in their feeding and sleeping patterns. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66001.0

Some info on bottles here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=173309.0 and here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=178500.0

Vicku
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Offline *Amy*

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 16:54:42 pm »
I think it is ok for him to fall asleep on the breast at 7pm - it is the last feed of the night, I never had a problem with DS or DD if they fell asleep at the breast at the last feed.

The way to get your LO asleep is to have a set routine. I pick DD up and start to shush straight away, we walk to the bedroom, I close the curtains put her in her sleep sack and swaddle with one arm out. I then turn on the white noise and walk around singing twinkle twinkle twice. I then put her in the cot on her side and hold and put pressure on her arm. I am still shushing. She may cry for about 5mins but for the past day or two she has started to fall asleep - also having the correct A time helps too!!
did you try the bottle with the nw??


Offline murphy76

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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 17:44:02 pm »
Thanks to both of you, much appreciated.  Last night I left the house and left DH to do the bedtime routine, so he did bath, pjs, and then DS took 3 oz of a 5 oz express bottle. DS never really got a good latch of it, it seems that the best latch is just when he is starting to wake up, so I guess it just takes time for DS to get used to taking a bottle when he is alert rather than still drowsy from his sleep. I then fed DS about 30 mins later, and he went down jsut after 9pm which was good considering other times its been 10pm, and thats after continous feeding from 7pm.

Today I cleared off again, and met my girlfriends for lunch - amazing how quickly one gets from A to B when travelling solo - whilst DH gave him a 3 oz bottle which he took in his carseat , and he would have taken more if I had more in the bottle. So this evening, I am about to head out so that DH does the same routine as last night, with the goal being to get DS to gradually take more, say 5 oz so that he will not need the breast after to fall asleep - small steps will hopefully get us to that point.

Your bedtime routine sounds so ideal and simple - I will try this over the next week and see where we get to - Vicku and Amy, anything else is much appreciated.


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Re: Breastfeeding / Formula for last feed before bed - HELP !!!
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 05:22:20 am »
It is funny, once you get the bed time routine established everything else will fall into place! with DS he is now almost 3 and he has the same bedtime routine now that he had as a new born!! Children just love routine!!
You are doing so great - I am a firm believer in an early bedtime - sometimes after a really bad day DS used to be in bed at 5.30pm - DH wouldn't see him but I would always say what would he rather to look at a peaceful sleeping baby or be handed an OT screamer the minute he comes in from work!! you can guess what he chose :)