16 month old DS NW and EW...help!

[katiemgarvin]

Hello everyone!  I'm not sure if I'm even posting on the right page, but here goes!

My DS is 16 months old and is giving me fits!  I would say about 3 or 4 nights a week he wakes in the night at least once and cries to be comforted.  Sometimes he gets milk, sometimes just a cuddle and rock.  Believe me, we have tried letting him CIO, but that child has a will of steel and will scream for an hour before we finally break down and go in there.  Ironically enough, I can never comfort him, he always, always, wants his daddy.  So, mostly on the nights he does sleep all the through, he has EW.  Here is his routine right now:

W: 7:15 (give or take, he may wake up a few minutes earlier or we may wake him no later than 7:30) as soon as he gets up he gets a sippy of milk
E: breakfast at 8:30
A: play until naptime
S: nap from 10-11:30 or 12
E: lunch at 12:30
A: play until naptime
S: nap from 2-3:30 or 4
E: supper at 5:45-6
A: play, bath
E: sippy of milk around 7:30
Bedtime: 8

I'm wondering if he is trying to transition to 1 nap.  There is usually nothing apparently wrong when he has NW.  He is teething so I've been chalking it up to that, but this has been going on for a lot longer than these teeth have been trying to come in.  We have tried days with no morning naps and a 2 hr pm nap (usually anywhere from 1-4) but he still goes to bed at the same time.  And the next mornings seem to be the ones with EW (at like 6 am).  I'm going a little insane!  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

KMG

[sianie]

Hi there!

If you don't mind I have a few questions to ask that will hopefully help us get to the bottom of what's going on with your LO!

Firstly, BW do not support CIO sleep training methods (see link below FYI), it can be damaging to your LO & break down the bond of trust between you & your child. It can also actually lead to more problems, making the situation harder to resolve.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0

I do wonder whether as you have let him CIO that this has contributed to your LO's NW's & distress. How many times did you try CIO? Do you have a copy of Tracy's book 'The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems'? If you do there's a really useful section on p192-195 on CIO & how to regain your LO's trust.

Looking at your routine you LO is having around a 1.5hr nap in the AM & a 1.5hr nap in the PM is that right? That is quite a lot of sleep for your LO's age so I wonder if he's UT at night-time. He could well be starting to transition to 1 nap (see link below).

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

Would you say he is quite high sleep needs (i.e. needs a lot of sleep)? Usually LO's transition to 1 nap between 12-18mths old.

Is he teething?

Sorry for all the Q's but they will help me to get a better understanding of what's going on! 

[katiemgarvin]

Hi!  Thanks for your response!

Not quite sure about the teething...he's gotten his upper and lower laterals on the right side, but not the left side (has a total of six teeth) but I feel like it took him forever to cut those.  So who knows when the other side will make an appearance.  We do Tylenol as needed if he's really chewing on his fingers and Oragel before bed.

Let me clarify:  we don't just let him lay in his bed and scream.  I do have, and have read "Solves All Your Problems", and found it very useful when he was younger.  Unfortunately I have loaned it to a friend in another state!  We'll give him a few minutes to see if he settles down and then go in there.  I, however, can never seem to comfort him.  He also fights against me and reaches for the door wanting his Daddy. There was one night recently where he was fine as long as my husband was holding him.  But as soon as he laid him down he'd wake up and scream.  So we ended up letting him cry for awhile, going in every little bit to check on him, but not pick him up.  He eventually went back to sleep.  He has a stuffed animal and blanket he sleeps with, as well as pacis and a sippy with water.

For the past two nights he has woken up around 11:30 (he's been getting milk here because he won't drink it before bed) and again around 5:30 (but thankfully not ready to get up).  He may be just getting too much sleep during the day.  It took him 1.5hrs to fall asleep last night (put him down at 8 and he fell asleep aroun 9:30).  He does however, now have a runny nose.  But this has been a pattern for several weeks...the NW and sometimes EW that is. 

He doesn't seem to be a high needs sleeper.  For example, Sunday we were out running errands all day.  He slept till 8:45 that morning, didn't get a morning nap, only slept for about 40 minutes in the afternoon and went to bed fine around 8.  He was a little cranky, but overall seemed okay.

That's why I was wondering if maybe he was ready to drop that morning nap.  Although I'm not sure I'm ready for him to drop it!! 

Thanks for your help!

[pinzer78]

That seems like a lot of day sleep for his age. My son is the same age, and if he napped that much in a day he'd be up alllll night! Your LO is probably going down ok for naps as he's tired from NWs, but causing more NWs and you get in a cycle. I found nap cutting got rid of most NWs but the OT loop is tough one, so we have many EWs.  Strange NWs that seem to not be caused by illness or teeth or always "UT" issues here.  Last week we had a long NW b/c he had a bit too much day sleep. I didn't think he did, but he thought so! You might want to try shortening the morning nap, and then putting him down in the afternoon as soon as he's acting tired. My guy does best with a long A time before bed.

[sianie]

I do think you need to start capping one of his naps.

You need to decide whether short AM/long PM nap or vice versa will work best for you. Whichever nap you decide to keep as the longer one then I'd start with keeping it at 1.5hrs & then I'd do 45mins/1hr for the shorter one. You'll need to be consistent with this change for a few days before deciding whether it's working or not.

The link below will help you a bit more with 2:1.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0

There's also a support thread on the boards (see link below) which you might find helpful to join....

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=185113.0

Does this help?

[katiemgarvin]

It does help!  I never thought about the EW and NW being caused by him being UT, OT, or getting too much day sleep...I'll start trying to shorten his nap (probably the morning nap first) and see where that leads.  Thanks for the input!

[katiemgarvin]

So now my question is, do I try to put him down at the same time at wake him early from his nap, or do I push back the time I put him down until he can make it till 12:00ish?  Ex: put him down at 9:45 wake him at 10:45 but him back down at usual pm naptime of 1:30-2. Or, push back start time of am nap and wake him at usual time (11:30-12) until that nap disappears?  Thanks!

[sianie]

Over time you will push the AM nap back until you get to around lunchtime & then the PM nap can be dropped, so you should eventually end up with his nap being 12pm-to around 2pm ideally.

This does need to be a gradual transition, do it too fast & you risk your LO getting OT. The advantage you have however is that your LO is a bit older so should be able to handle the extra A time better than a younger LO.

Are you going with long AM/short PM or short AM/long PM?

His AM nap is currently 10am right? If you feel he can handle some additional A time (they are on the low side for his age) then add 10/15 mins A to his first A time then cap his nap at 1.5hrs (if you're doing long AM nap).

HTH?

[katiemgarvin]

I think I'm going to shoot for a longer PM nap, mostly because I don't want to risk his wake time getting earlier by pushing his bedtime earlier!!  Okay, so you're suggesting increasing his A time between wake and morning nap by 10-15 minutes increments every few days until he can handle A time from wake till 12.  That makes sense.  And capping it makes sense, too.  Right now, if he doesn't get a morning nap (or a very short nap) he handles it okay as far as being OT.  This is all starting to make sense!  Now I just gotta pray for an easy transition!!

[sianie]

If you are doing short AM/long PM then maybe try his AM nap at around 10/10.15am for 45 mins then PM nap around 2pm-ish for up to 1.5hrs. You will need to wake him at these times to stay on track.

The full transition can take some time so your best taking it slowly, once you've increased his A time & he seems happy with it & is napping well & sleeping well at night then leave it at that A time for a while. When you start to get nap/BT resistance &/or naps start getting shorter then you know it's time to increase his A time again & cap a nap even more.

Good luck!