4 HR EASY and now NW

[jay2yay]

You're all making me feel like Isaac is the runt of the litter! lol. Well, I'm 5' and Daddy is 5'7....not very high hopes there! He was 8lb6oz at birth! So, Oliver has passed him waaaay up!

Thank you for the encouragement As you know, it just gets so tiring! I just love I have you all to be crabby to.....many times in the middle of my frustration, I think or say to DH, "I need to post about this!!" He makes this expression a lot 

[firsttimemummy]

Thank you for the encouragement  As you know, it just gets so tiring! I just love I have you all to be crabby to.....many times in the middle of my frustration, I think or say to DH, "I need to post about this!!" He makes this expression a lot

DH rolls his eyes too (so are my mum and sister) - I just remind DH that is why we have 2 content little boys who sleep well (albeit that Oliver is wakening for lots of milk!!).  DH did laugh at your post!

I think Oliver is gaining so much weight so that soon he can run around a ridiculous amount (today Murray kept running round and round the table for no reason - apparently DH did the same) - even the HV comments on how much energy Murray has!

Justine - the way I keep myself sane with NWs is that I remind myself that at some point the balance will shift and we will be struggling to get them out of bed!

[bug_blues70]

I know that I should do PUPD at night but don't have the energy at the moment and find it easier to feed so just going to do that.

this is me too!!

Thank you for the encouragement Smiley As you know, it just gets so tiring! I just love I have you all to be crabby to.....many times in the middle of my frustration, I think or say to DH, "I need to post about this!!" He makes this expression a lot  Roll Eyes

LOL!! Totally kwym tho, DH just doesn't understand so I have to post too. Even after all this time he's still pretty clueless and I have to explain a whole lotta background to get to the point of what I'm trying to say!!

[firsttimemummy]

Even after all this time he's still pretty clueless and I have to explain a whole lotta background to get to the point of what I'm trying to say!!

once things work DHs seem to listen! sorry - we seem to be going off-topic ...

[Ima shel Alon]

I know that  from somewhere.

Justine, I was going to say solids as well because we had NW as well that started a bit before Alon was 5 months old and the solids helped us. I think. But yes, if you don't think he is ready then don't.
My mom told me that when we were little and she wanted to stop us from eating at night she would support and lift our head when we woke up and give some water. It's what Lucy said, but I think it worked for my mom because she didn't take us out of the crib, so we were still in a kind of sleep mode.
Don't know if it will work with Issac because he is used to your breast and not a bottle (am I right?), but thought I'll throw it in.

[jay2yay]

We used to give him DF in a bottle every night and he still takes the bottle easily.  I could try it....knowing him, I'm envisioning a very quick meltdown since it's not what he wants. But maybe he'll surprise me

[Shiv52]

Basically, she said if the PU/PD doesn't work after a good go, THEN it MIGHT mean he's ready for solids since a 4mo old shouldn't be needing to eat at night. I read over (again) the example on pg 120 (which she says to refer to during the solids chapter) and I think I need to follow it.

I just wanted to point out that since the book was published and Tracy passed away BFing advice in terms of demand feeding and NFs etc has changed and we are certain that Tracy would have updated her BFing advice along the same lines had she lived.

So... 

I can't do PU/PD because it's hunger. I don't know what to do!!

If he is hungry then I'd feed him.  It is not unusual for a BF to need a NF and a DF until they are well established on solids.  Just like lots of BF babies can't make it 4 hours between feeds.  You are putting so much effort into your supply etc and doing great  but I think if he is hungry just feed him and resettle him and he/you will wean it when he's ready.

HTH x

[*Ali*]

I agree with Shiv Tracy probably would have updated some of her ideas on BF babies in light of new research on breast milk if she were around to do so.
Also, don't forget that Tracy also says all babies are different and just because SOME babies are able to STTN at 4mo it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with a baby who needs a NF a little longer. It is common for a baby who has previously slept through to start waking again at 4mo. Lots of LOs sleep really well for a few weeks after their immunisations as well. It really does sound like your LO is hungry. And if he is on the petite side his tummy is smaller than a much bigger LO and will be able to holf less as well. If I don't think this is a sign that he needs solids.
If you have supply issues Justine, NFs will actually help this. Ensuring you don't go too long overnight without feeding will help boost your supply.
I found it helped DS take more at each feeding during the day if I did a nappy change before offering the second breast. I guess it gave some time for the milk from the first breast to go down a little.

[jay2yay]

Thank you Shiv and Ali! That's a good idea about the diaper change. We were all ready to do Pu/PD last night, but I fed him at 7, 9, and 11 (per the example) and he STTN- ha! Figures. I did use ebm for one of those feedings which might have been why. When I try to tank up just using my breast, I don't think there's enough there for what he's willing to eat.
So tonight, I fed him as normal, then ebm an hr later before bed. Will do the DF as normal by nursing and just keep experimenting!! Thank you again - tbh, I don't think I could've gone through with pu/pd if I knew for certain he was hungry And I definitely won't be doing it if he does wake during the night for a feed, either. It's definitely not habitual and I see that now.

[firsttimemummy]

Just out of interest - the feeds at 9 and 11 - are you doing them both as df? Oliver goes to bed for the night after his 7pm feed ...

[*Ali*]

Glad you are having success Justine.

[firsttimemummy]

Glad you are having success Justine

me too 

[jay2yay]

Just out of interest - the feeds at 9 and 11 - are you doing them both as df? Oliver goes to bed for the night after his 7pm feed ...

Sort've. I didn't "wake" him but I didn't really try not to either. He ended up having a very sleepy feed at 9 and I didn't do a diaper change (changed right before bed). I don't recall if I burped him.....burping him when he's sleepy isn't a big deal tho since it always comes out easily. Then 11 was normal DF. So I don't have to do that every night, I'm trying to top him up with ebm before bedtime, about an hr or so after his last feed. Last night he slept til 7:40am so FX!!

[firsttimemummy]

okay - thanks! I gave Oliver 4 sides of milk last night at 7pm as he was tired - it seems swapping him over woke him up a bit to take some more milk.  He only woke once in the night.  DH tried to settle him but he clearly was hungry so we fed him.  I also was dairy free yesterday so it could ave been that ....

Oliver only gets burped (well sits til it comes up) if he is squirming when feeding - otherwise he doesn't need it.  We also don't change his nappy in the night ever, unless it is dirty.