Author Topic: Diet and behaviour?  (Read 9051 times)

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Offline Shdef

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2011, 08:01:05 am »
And defintitely, Steffi has shown a great example of what can happen when it is not an issue of sugar or food intolerances, but rather just from years of all-around unhealthiness.  Their bodies must have just felt awful, trying to process all of the salt, fat, lack of fresh produce and vitamins :( 

It really was an awful diet, the kids' mum did not do very well with feeding them. Sam had a Pot Noodle for dinner for THREE YEARS :o when he was little.

And they are not really allergic or intolerant to anything much and do get their treats in moderation (they are pretty much adults now) and watch out themselves to eat healthily.


Offline Duckie

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2011, 09:41:47 am »
Steffi, I remember when you first started caring for Sam and Jenn and I'm just so happy they are thriving in your care. Jenn seems like a hoot (and wicked smart) and from what you've said about Sam, he's really flourishing!

Well done - all of you!
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Offline deb

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2011, 10:44:20 am »
Please remember that I did not in any way say that 'bad parenting' is a factor, not in regards to myself, to Charli's DDs or to any other children.  I think that my husband and I are great parents, although we make mistakes sometimes, we are still great parents in our eyes. And there are days when my son is unbearable - and it is certainly 100% not food related for him. 

I didn't say you did. As  I mentioned, I can only report my own experiences. And wow, have I got a LOT of those. :(

BTW, that article you referenced was from 2004, and there has been a LOT of new research since then. There are some statements in there that are flat-out WRONG. "The only way to know for sure if a child has a food allergy is to see a doctor for a skin or blood allergy test." - wrong - those tests aren't 100% accurate, so you can get a result and still not be able to trust it. "'the problem with the Feingold diet is you can't keep a child on it because it eliminates things kids really like.'" - sure you can! We did it, don't tell me I "can't." ::) They address out-and-out food allergies but not intolerances at all, instead going from either it being a food allergy or ADHD with no other factors considered like intolerances or allergic reactions that don't include wheezing or eczema. New food additives are being used since then that haven't been fully tested except by the companies who make them (here in the States the FDA allows companies to provide their own safety studies, and there is very little independent research on them because funding is hard to come by). We know more than we did then, so while the idea that parents' perceptions of their kids' behavior is important, I have a LOT of issues with what the article says. :(

Between my kids' reactions, my experiences as a teacher, my friends' experiences with horrible food allergy situations in one of her kids, and the reading I've done, I can only say that there's definitely a link for a lot of kids. It's literally what's turned me into such a crazy foodie. LOL If the information is primarily anecdotal rather than scientifically studied because someone hasn't yet released a study, then it is, but more and more research is being released that definitively shows connections between diet and behavior for more than just a few kids here and there.

And then I would just re-emphasize what I wrote in my most recent post on this thread anyway except I'm going up for more coffee since it's not yet 7AM here. LOL

I'm going to have the rest of my coffee now and hope that all made some sort of sense. :D

Offline Shdef

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2011, 12:59:07 pm »
Steffi, I remember when you first started caring for Sam and Jenn and I'm just so happy they are thriving in your care. Jenn seems like a hoot (and wicked smart) and from what you've said about Sam, he's really flourishing!

Well done - all of you!


They are AWESOME kids, we are so proud. They are smart, good-looking and confident for the most part (both have some issues, but who doesn't) and they are doing so well :)

As to the whole food-behaviour issue, of course there is one, but it is different for each child. I don't find the diet of Charli's daughters necessarily to be a cause of the issues, it does seem nicely balanced and many kids get squash in the UK and are perfectly fine. It might be, but might not  :-\

Then for other kids, the link is plain obvious, like with Deb's kids and well, seen as this thread is about kids reacting behaviourally to food, her input is on-topic and interesting, just as much as the input of parents whose kids do not react at all :)

Offline my3girlsjde

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2011, 13:38:01 pm »
Wow, glad I found this thread as we're now withholding milk from the twins' diet for two weeks to see if we see anything new. Granted we're also getting possible sleep apnea checked out which would explain A LOT but there's always been something 'up' with them. They were MPI and reflux babies so it wouldn't be completely out there if they were still having a hard time processing milk. Ice cream I've seen the most introverted and shy spiriteds in a room full of hundreds of strangers completely melt down publicly and become human bouncing balls. This is definitely not their public behaviour. HOWEVER, there are a lot of ingredients in ice cream and although they had different flavours, there are a lot of common ingredients they both had. So we're going to give it a two week trial just to see.

E is severely MSPI. We thought allergic but the one test came back negative. MSPI to the point of hives, wheezing and blood in her stool. So there's a genetic possibility of the twins still being MPI.

I do put a lot of faith that behaviour can be changed due to food additives, colourings and chemicals. Our bodies simply weren't designed to process them. That being said, we eat processed food as it simply fits into my food budget of three children on a single income. We try to make as much from scratch as we can, but there's still a lot here with additives and colourings and chemicals.

I do see a difference in my girls when they've had a sugary treat, but all of those sugary treats have colourings. They have to have a dozen homemade cookies to really go 'off' the way they do after eating a sucker. And it's still nothing compared to how they were after having an ice cream last weekend. But there were other things that could have been at play. They were out for a few hours, they were a little on the tired side, lots of stimulation and they were starving by the time they got their ice cream. Then I asked them to wait in a line with me. So this is the sociology analytical research design professor's voice in the back of my mind. Unless you can remove all other factors beyond a reasonable doubt, you'll never know. That's one of my reasons for going a full two weeks without milk. If they don't have milk today, they may not have cereal, sugary oatmeal, pancakes, x, y, or z either. Over a course of two weeks, chances are they'll have all of the other foods that may be causing issue. And the other reason for two weeks with no milk is it really does take a long time to get out of the system.

My cousin was treated for ADHD for a number of years with no success. It involved medication increases, suggestions to my aunt and uncle for parenting classes and no doubt a lot of stress. Then they found out he had an intolerance to red food dye. Within a few weeks he was a new kid. Then my uncle tried going off of it and found similar results.

I watched a special where children of parents who work in the sugar cane fields ate the unprocessed sugar cane. The kids weren't hyper. They weren't genetically predisposed to be able to tolerate sugar any more than any other child. I don't think there's anything wrong with good old fashioned sugar in food used in moderation as it's proven to lead to obesity and you shouldn't have too much of one thing. But man-made chemicals are completely different. If i had the ability to remove them from my house and not become instantly poor I would. I DO think they're bad for you. I could go on for hours on how the incidence of food intolerances, behavioural disorders and obesity have been sharply on the rise since our method of obtaining raw food and processing it has changed so much in the last century. I think they're related. Food simply isn't made the way it used to be. Granted more people can be fed for cheaper but the side effects are how we're paying for our progress.

Again, I could go on for hours.......................
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





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Offline EllenS

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2011, 16:47:10 pm »
I think the summary is, kids go through difficult periods for all sorts of reasons, sometimes developmental, sometimes because we need to adjust our parenting, and sometimes because of external factors like sleep or food. 

This is why BW philosophy is so helpful, it's about observing our children as individuals, being proactive, noticing patterns, and being intentional about our parenting in a way that meets their needs.  There are universal principles but no "one-size fits all".
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Offline deb

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2011, 16:54:13 pm »
That's neat about the raw sugar cane. We can get it here in many ethnic groceries. :) And really, the difference between chewing on raw sugar cane and having sugar in, say, a sugary drink is similar to the difference between eating a handful of grapes or an apple and drinking a cup of juice (containing the fructose of a LOT more fruit). I forget how much dissolved sugar/HFCS is in a 12-ounce can of soda pop, but it's a LOT, like a staggering amount, and many people drink more than 2 or 3 a day (like my 12YO student I had to ask to refrain from caffeine before her lessons - she takes it in the form of Coca-Cola and Doctor Pepper :X).

A lot of sugar in the States (don't know about other countries) is actually grown from sugar beets, many of which are also GMO, and unless the box is labeled "pure cane sugar" (which many of them are), you don't know for sure what you're getting either in the box/bag (if you're making from scratch) or in premade processed sweets (where the sugar is just labeled "sugar"). (It's the beet growers and cane growers who are the industry leaders behind the push against high fructose corn syrup getting off scot-free on calling their product "identical" to sugar. :evil grin:)

EllenS posted while I was typing. Totally true. :)

Offline We Three

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2011, 17:19:41 pm »
I just want to add also that my dd has NEVER displayed a reaction to a particular food with regard to behaviors.  She is textbook all the way, no mood swings, no real issues to speak of....some sensory stuff but that is just "her" and has been there since birth! 

BUT....she is dye-free, we keep her simple sugar low, we feed her whole foods as much as possible, and things like caffeine and artificial sweeteners don't even enter the equation.

 It is not at all hard (for us) to avoid dyes....the biggest culprits are breakfast cereal and candy. At birthday parties, we scrape off the frosting if it is colored, and it is not a big deal to us (or to dd!).  We hardly give it a thought. It is OTHER people who think we are depriving our daughter. But she eats ice cream, occasional cookies (I prefer to make them or we get them from a local farm market). My point is, we don't have any behavioral issues at all, we are just parents who wish to avoid that stuff.

 Is there a link between her mild-mannered behavior and the fact that she doesn't eat alot of processed stuff? Hmm.  Likely won't know that unless she makes different choices when she is older. Time will tell I guess.

 Fascinating readin as always though. Just wanted to offer that perspective. We avoid becayuse of our own beliefs, not because of any behavioral issues or reactions. 

Offline Roseii

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2011, 17:07:53 pm »
Just wanted to say I am reading all this-v interesting and enlightening! Just don't have time to respond properly yet. I'm v grateful for all the input x
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Offline my3girlsjde

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2011, 00:39:29 am »
Well here's one for the sugar question:

I walked in to the kitchen this morning after changing E's diaper to see the girls taking turns chugging the remains of the pancake syrup bottle :o. They had managed to somehow between the two of them to polish off about an inch of liquid sugar. I had visions of them bouncing off of the ceiling, and I quickly dressed them to go for a walk expecting the worst. Nothing happened. If anything they were a bit tired during our 1km walk to the store.

So positive - I know it's not the sugar that causes them to morph into little monsters. My guess is the colourings/additives that do it. We've had them off of milk for four days now, and zero change. But we're going to keep them off for a full two weeks to make sure.
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





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Offline Katet

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2011, 03:46:55 am »
Something occured to me today, when all the parents at soccer were comment how they were glad the game was on as they have much more pleasant Saturdays when their children play soccer.  If you compare children now to how they were 20 -40 years ago, well less exercise is a huge thing in the changes . Even soccer games are shorter & smaller fields etc.

While I think food can be a factor for some (maybe all) children,  I also think that the lack of "active" exercise & fresh air is also a factor. Ideally a 3yo should get about 3hours of active physical play - walking, running, climbing, jumping etc.

Over the last week we have had 3 days that have been 'PJ days' (lazy stay at home days) , my boys needed them & enjoyed them & on those days they probably only played outside for 2 hours (they are on School Holidays) , but at the end of the 3rd they were getting testy... the last 3 days they have been more active & today they played soccer, just had lunch & biting at the bit to go out & play golf... the thing about the last 3 days is their moods have been great, not that we have any major issues as a general rule, but just they are in great moods. Also I've noticed that when things get a bit tense around here I can actually send them out for 5-10 laps of the back yard (about 50m/lap) & I get more 'rational' children who come back inside.
I do think often when children aren't being 'calm' is can be because they actually need to blow of steam & get the blood flowing... certainly I know when I don't get my 3-4 days/week exercise in, I am moodier & not as happy.
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Offline Mashi

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2011, 05:23:40 am »
Kate even at 3yo I notice that in my DS. I don't think he will be as great of an athlete as yours are but he does/will love doing sports as much as they do!  We absolutely have an indoor/outdoor corelation with his behaviour!

Offline Shiv52

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2011, 08:10:28 am »
Absolutely Kate! Thats a great point. On days when we are indoors all day M's behaviour can be awful. I notice a bigger correlation between getting out/exercise and behaviour than diet for sure.

Funny thats been in the news all week here in the UK....that under 5s should have at least 3 hours of active exercise every day and I was really surprised that they would need to make such a recommendation at all because M never sits still in the house let alone out and about. But we went to a family fun day during the week and I was surprised at the number of 3/4 YOs in buggies with their juice and crisps and they stayed there the whole afternoon whereas M was walking and running the whole time.

I guess it can come down to what we know works...good diet with treats in moderation, plenty of exercise and enough sleep. And unless we see a particular pattern with a food then challenging days at more likely to be related to other things like sleep or developmental leaps etc. 





Offline Katet

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2011, 10:33:59 am »
Kate even at 3yo I notice that in my DS. I don't think he will be as great of an athlete as yours are but he does/will love doing sports as much as they do!  We absolutely have an indoor/outdoor corelation with his behaviour!

Mashi at 3 neither of mine had that much 'ability' & while I do think DS2 probably fits the 'gifted athlete' in the natural sportsman type, DS1 is more the 'hard yards - determination' type (as seen when he played an extra half game up an age-group for the 9's because they were short a player), & if passion counts for anything then one day he could play cricket for Australia, but I'm not sure he has the natural ability & sadly I think DS2 may have the ability, but may well lack the drive & determination.
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Offline Roseii

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Re: Diet and behaviour?
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2011, 11:31:29 am »
Hoping to reply properly later today but just a small update: took DD1 to the shop yesterday and let her choose some "real" fruit juices (ie the refridgerated ones with just 100% fruit and some absorbic acid) She chose apple, pineapple and orange & mango...She seems happy with them so far (I am diluting them but not too much as they don't taste good watered down) and I have told DH the Robinsons is hidden in the larder for when/if he wants it!
x
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