29mo I need a lot of help

[~Sarah~]

Things have gone from bad to worse and right this second I want to strangle DS so sorry if this is scattered.

DS was an angel sleeper until 4mo ago, now he is an absolute nightmare that has gotten progressively worse to the point I can't even describe.

He has always taken long naps and had shorter nights.  No big deal.  He went into BBB, got over that issue, shortened nap, got over that, outgrew toddler bed, got thorugh that.  Now he is fighting taking his nap.  HE IS EXHAUSTED AND NEEDS TO NAP.  He tells me he is tired, we do our WD and shortly there after he turns into a maniac.  He can handle some no nap days but too many in row is a nightmare.

I do not want to lock him in his room (although right now that is where he is)  I just find that disrespectful.

He hits and his behavior is so off when he does not sleep.  The first few days of no naps he easily goes to sleep early any more than 2 days he refuses BT.  We have 4am NW every night right now.

I have to stop...but I need help

Sarah
TIA

[Roseii]

(((HUGS!!!!)))

Sounds hideous

Tell us your approx routine, and what you think the main issues are when you try with the nap-i.e OT? UT? Thinks he is missing out? And what's the WD, and how long does it take?

xxx

[~Sarah~]

Sorry that was a terrible first post.  I actually have 2 toddlers screaming and refusing sleep right now so not really pretty.

We had been in a good routine that had a nap at about 6.5-7hr A for about 1.5-2hrs. We had nap refusal here and there but no big deal.

Then about 2wks ago he started refusing more and more naps.  He then was clearly OT.  Then I think he got some sort of SA going on???  He started wanting me to lay down with him while he settled to sleep.  It would only be for a few min., no big deal. Then he started NW and coming to our bed.  No big deal.

Now he won't settle if I lay with him or if I leave him in the room...I've enven tried rocking him..which I had NEVER done before but it worked the other night once.

This was his routine the last few days.

No naps mon-wed(I think) then a 2hr nap on Wed.  No nap Thurs-Sat
going to sleep all those days around 6pm.  NW around 4am comng to our bed or wanting me in his bed.  If he is sleeping with me he will sleep until 730-8am  If he is alone he wakes at 6

Sun
700WU
1230-230 nap We were letting him sleep as long as he could as he desperately needed the catchup.
745 in bed asleep around 830
930 NW
430 NW


730 WU (today)
100 tried for a nap refused

I know he is tired.  He tells us he is along with yawning. His eyes get very heavy like he is ready to sleep actually very early, so I had been trying for earlier naps...maybe this is where I am going wrong??  It just seemed like he was getting OT...he is a horrible miserable bear when he is OT and he is hard to get out of the OT loop.

Today we went to the zoo for just a tiny bit and we have about a 25min drive.  His eyes were heavy the whole time (starting around noon) and by the time we got home he looked ready.  My DD fell asleep in the car, so I told him to wait in the car while mom put the Bean to sleep "ok mom"  Took DD down and she woke   so left her in the crib went to get him out of car (warm day)  Let him watch tv for a few min while I tried to settle DD.  That was not working so I left her to try to work it out on her own while I tried to do DS's WD...that is always, put on PJ's, truck book, and sleepy prayer then I lay down for a few min or just leave. Everything goes fine until after prayer.  Then it is like an alarm goes off and he won't even lay still and close his eyes anymore.
By that time DD was screaming, DS was screaming, and I was posting to keep my hands and temper in check.

Now it is 240 and no one has napped and they are both playing like everything is ok in the world...I on the other hand am about ready to loose my mind!!

I would be ok with him not napping if he did not become such a bear after a few days.  I guess maybe I am getting BT wrong on no nap days??  How many hrs of day should I shoot for?

I forgot, it did work for a few days when we went over the routine of things ex.  "After lunch we will watch a program while mom puts bean to sleep.  Then we will read stories and take a nap.  When you wake up we will have cereal bar and milk."  Then after he refused he would come out of his room and ask for cereal bar.  I would say "no you did not nap, so now we can't have cereal bar"  not as a reward but as the logical flow of the day ( I don't love rewards but maybe he was seeing it that way??) But even now that doesn't matter.  As I put his clothes back on he says "no cereal bar" snack please.

I do think there is also some food issues going on here.  He is picky and getting pickier.  In fact at last nights 430NW he woke from a dead sleep asking for O's

I am at a loss...I will take any and all ideas!

Thanks for listening and reading that whole thing

Sarah

[sianie]

Hey Sarah!

{{Hugs}}, sorry things are still rough! I can totally sympathise with the nap dropping nightmare, it sucks!!

DD dropped her nap back in April & she is still adjusting. The only things that worked for us when she started nap & BT resistance was doing really early BT's on no nap days. I've found that around 11.5hrs from WU seems to work best for us (yes, it's a very early BT & yes it's a challenge getting her down early, especially when you have 2 LO's)!

Are all his teeth in?

Would he do a short CN (around 30 mins) at some point during the day to help curb some of the tiredness (he does sound OT) & then do an early BT?

[Roseii]

Agree with the Cat nap idea--any chance of a quick drive to give him 30 mins?
Or you could try alternating your nap/no nap days in the hope he is less likely to protest if it's not a daily occurrence yk?
The other thing you could try is the idea of quiet time, explaining the lights will be off (or low) and this is quiet time for him to sit and read books. Might he understand that? And potentially drop off, if it's not presented as an actual nap? (I don't know if this is feasible, for an angel probably but I know my spirited would have none of it!!)
Re the food issues-do you think he's hungry? Snack before bed??
Re the day length I would aim for around 11 hours if you have a decent enough wake up time and no nap. With a decent nap, say 1 hour if you get it, more like 12.5 hours.
Lastly have you tried a gro-clock? You can set them for naps as well as bt.
Xxx

[~Sarah~]

Thanks girls for your replies.  I am honestly having a harder time with his toddler sleep than I EVER did with his infant sleep....so weird!!!

I would LOVE a CN of any sort...but it seems like either a nap will happen or it won't period.  There is no amount of coaxing a nap from him.  In fact that is where the frustration comes.  If he does not fall asleep right away it escalates to him crying from that point until he goes to sleep.  So like yesterday he cried, hit, phushed, and kicked from 2-6.  It is awful!! 

I have tried to get him to sleep by driving, he screams the entire time.  Yesterday we drove for 45min and luckily his sister caught a CN even though he screamed the entire time!

We do shoot for about an 11.5hr day if no nap and then he will sleep about a 13hr night.

We have a Gro-clock and he only follows it if it says what he wants it to say    Most of the time he just ignores it.  He is a little too bright for his britches

And potentially drop off, if it's not presented as an actual nap? (I don't know if this is feasible, for an angel probably but I know my spirited would have none of it!!)

Doubtful-he is actually spirited, but just had been an angel sleeper.  I am toying with letting him watch his programs as he gest close to sleep, but he won't tip over into sleep.  I had stayed away from that bc it felt like I was rewarding him for not napping.

Re the food issues-do you think he's hungry? Snack before bed??

Maybe  I had been doing a BT snack but then he was refusing to eat at supper as he knew the BT snack would do the trick.  I may have to go back to it...here is my food thread http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=214840.0;topicseen

I think all I can do is try offering and not getting emotional about him not sleeping.  I also am going to try for a nap around 6.5 hrs today and see if the timing will fix some of the problem.

Thanks again for your help.  I guess I need to face that he is truly dropping his nap.  It is hard for me to wrap my head around bc only a few (2 at most) months ago he was still taking 3hr naps!  I really thought it would be more of a wind down to nothing instead of all or nothing.

OH and he has had his 2yr molars for 3-4mo now so I am sure they are all properly moved into place.


Sarah

[sianie]

I think you have a couple of options really (& BTW I totally get how hard dropping the nap is!):

Just drop the nap completely & do as early a BT as is possible. Try to do low key activities after lunch when he would have napped to keep the meltdowns to a minimum.

OR....try a much earlier nap, that might sound a little crazy but if he's very OT then it could be that his sleep window is being missed.

Overtime things will start to even out, but TBH going on my own experience & that of others on here going through the 1-0 transition there's no easy way through it unfortunately!

[Roseii]

Agree with Sianie, the 1-0 sucks a lot!! Dd1 started at 23m
So how are you getting on? Any luck with earlier or no nap?
Tbh almost everyday I end up driving to give Dd1 some sort of sleep...Do you think that option is out altogether?
Xx

[*Becky*]

I will be back Sarah - this is so much like what we are going through. It sucks x

[*Becky*]

I think all I can do is try offering and not getting emotional about him not sleeping.  I also am going to try for a nap around 6.5 hrs today and see if the timing will fix some of the problem.

I need to do the same - it is so hard NOT to get emotional though isn't when you know they need it and they are falling apart in front of you.
Firstly i would try the 6.5 hours A and see if that helps at all and if not then try an earlier one.
We have resorted to 30 min nap in the car and a set early bedtime but not sure if it is going to work out atm.

We have 4am NW every night right now.

This is the time H wakes when he is OT too - we had numerous requests last night. sigh.

Then after he refused he would come out of his room and ask for cereal bar.  I would say "no you did not nap, so now we can't have cereal bar"  not as a reward but as the logical flow of the day ( I don't love rewards but maybe he was seeing it that way??) But even now that doesn't matter.  As I put his clothes back on he says "no cereal bar" snack please.

Same here - I told H that we would go to the farm AFTER his rest and then I tried to explain that as he had not rested we could not go as he would feel too tired so then each morning he would say to me that he did not need to rest and he did not want to go to the farm - even though it is his favourite place!!!
Hugs - it is really hard - nothing worse than seeing your child really really tired and just not napping.

[~Sarah~]

Hey guys-thought I would update

I end up driving to give Dd1 some sort of sleep...Do you think that option is out altogether?
Xx

Unfortunately he will not nap in the car unless he is completely 100% physcially exhausted like after we have been at the lake all day and it is 3pm or later    Otherwise he screams the worst primal scream you have ever heard and he never calms down.  It is awful and I do not even like to try

i would try the 6.5 hours A

We have had naps 2 days in a row now at 6.5 hr A.  The first day I just let him sleep knowing he was OT...no problems at BT just right to sleep after 5hrs A.  Yesterday, I am not sure how long he slept bc I forgot to look, he was sleeping so hard he started to have an accident and woke up kind of startled.  I think it was almost 2hrs though.  WE had some issues at BT last night.  It took him 1.5hrs to fall asleep.  Today I will be more cautious about how long he sleeps assuming he naps, which I think he will.  He has actually gotten quite sick.

he would say to me that he did not need to rest and he did not want to go to the farm

This happened to my GF with her DD when she just dropped her nap completely.  Her DD is closer in age  to yours than mine is.  She said it was really hard at first but she has been nap free for over a month now and she says she has adjusted to no nap and actually does great!  No more behavior issues. No fighting BT...in fact if she does nap she will not go to sleep until almost 10pm so she has used it a few times to help if they wanted to be out of the house in the evening for a summer concert outside etc.
This gives me hope!

I have no idea if my guy is really dropping or if he is just getting into an OT loop and now combined with being sick, I am not sure if he was not napping and doing awful bc he was getting sick OR if he is napping bc he is feeling sick.

Oh well...all I can do is roll with it.

Becky-I have found I stay a little less emotional if I stand in his doorway instead of being by his bed while this is all going on...strength be with you!!  This sux!!!!!