4mo cries excessively during wind down befor nap

[Activa]

Hi,

I have DD that is 4mo old. We just started pu/pd a week ago because her naps abruptly shortened to 30-45min and it was torture to even get her to sleep. Her naps have improved and regularily are 1-1.15hr. (wo waking) When she wakes I use pu/pd or shss/patt to get her back to sleep. I am going to try the w2s next to see if that will extend her naps to the 1.5-2 hr mark.

My question is that she cries excessively during our wind down time. I watch her cues carefully and make sure i start calmer activities about 30 min before nap. I adjust her A time if her nap was short or she shows signs of tiredness so I don't think she's OT. She is fine until we start our pre nap ritual and then the crying begins. It's like she knows what is coming and is fighting it. By the time she is in the crib she is wailing. It generally takes 20 min before she is calm and I can leave.

She is currently on a 4 hr schedule. Is there anything I can do to limit the crying. I expect her to fuss and cry a bit during the falling asleep part but not in the wind down time.  This generally only happens with the naps. She goes to sleep well at night although a bit fussy before bed. I figure that is normal after a full day of Learning. I don't know if this will reduce as time goes on.

We have been consistent with pu/pd and have not caved and used any props. We even were successful of getting ride of her pacifier with this method!

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated.

Current schedule
Wake up 7
E 7:15 (bf and fruit)
A 7:45
S 9:00 ( usually 1.15 continuous and then pu.pd to get back to sleep)
E 11:00 (ff)
A 11:30
S 12:45-1 pm ( nap same, extend w pu.pd)
E 2:45-3 pm (bf)
A 3:15-3:30
S 5pm ( if naps were short or a lot of pu.pd used then I let her sleep 1-1:15 hr)
E 6 pm (bf)
A 6:30
S 7:30-7:45 (ff before bed)
DF 11 ish ( just started so haven't seen full affect yet)

She usually wakes 6 hrs on the nose from when she falls asleep for night feed.



Thanks

This forum is great as it has answered so many questions for me already!

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi, I have a few questions if that's ok.
Why did you go to pu/pd? Did you try pat/shh first? It's recommended to always try and settle in the cot and use pu/pd as a last resort.
What are you doing for WD? How long is it? Do you consider these 30min of quiet A time the WD or do you have a certain nap routine?
When did you change to a 4h routine? Did you change it gradually?
Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying that we get a better idea of what's happening.
What be helpful to look at a full day of EASY.

[Activa]

No problem on the questions,

I will clarify, I have mistakenly lumped the pu.pd method in with shss/pat when explaining myself. It's not too often that I have to use p.u/p.d anymore. If I do it's usually only a few times. ,most of her calming happens within the crib with shss/pat, holding hands on her or some variation. The pu/pd usually happens if she wakes in the night as she often wakes herself fully ( and early wakeup).

The 4 hr schedule has been in effect for about 3 weeks now (DD is 4.5 mo to be exact). It was a gradual shift.

I don't consider the 30 of calmer activity as part of the wind down. I just take her away from really stimulating stuff and often just carry her around doing quiet talking. WD is about 5-10 min but often she cries within a few minutes so sometimes we just go to the crib shortly after we started.

Normal WD is go into bedroom and sit on bed (she is still in out room in her own crib). We pull the blinds and turn on a white noisemaker. She has stuffed bear that she will look at while we calmly whisper or don't talk at all. Then she clues into what is happening and starts crying. It doesn't matter if I have her seated or over my shoulder beginning a shss pat.

Should I do her WD in a different room?
I think as luck would have it that she is also in a growth suet as she has woken for an extra feed two nights in a row. I've upped her daytime food in hopes of remedying that

[ZacsMumme]

Is she a touchy or sprited baby by any chance?
How long is she napping on her own before you have to use PU/PD?

[Activa]

No she really follows the textbook model more then anything. She plays well and interacts with new things without much fuss. She rarely cries unless she is trying to tell me something specific like I'm hungry or OS and then stops immediately when I meet the need.

[ZacsMumme]

Okay, then my guess is if she is crying before naps she is likely to be UT or OT....how long have you had those A times? Some babies like a shorter WD and want to settle themselves, when she is in the cot does she mantra cry or all out scream for you?

There is a huge GS at 4 months plus a big developmental leap, how long has the crying been going on for?

((HUGS))

[Ima shel Alon]

Did I miss your EASY sample or you add it later?

I also think like Sara that you have a case of UT or OT, I'm just not quite sure which one it is from looking at your EASY.
You need to get the A time right, and yes it's not easy, but it's possible. I can tell what I did now because I had the same situation (not with the crying, but 40min naps after a long time we didn't have them):
The first A time of the day I knew but I had to figure out the second one, so I gave him the 5min more of A time than I gave in the morning (the first A time is usually shorter than the next one/ones). Every two days I would up the second A time with 5min until I got to the right one. I was lucky that it took me only four days, but I was willing to go as long as needed. You could do the same also for the first A time of the day till you find what is right for you. I would however wait until you finish with the GS, I found that it's very hard to establish anything new while they in the middle of it.

[Activa]

I have been experimenting over the last few days and have noticed that I do have to adjust her A time more depending on length and quality of her naps. The better the nap the more time I add in her next A time otherwise she is UT for the following nap.

I've changed her WD as you mentioned and shortened it right up. She seems to better just doing calm activities bf nap and then just a couple of minutes standing beside the crib. Generally she does a few unhappy cries and then moves into mantra crying. I usually just shh.pat through this and after about ten min she's drifting off to sleep.

So the next thing I'm still working on is when to do the W2S? Sometimes she will sleep uninterrupted for 1.15hr and other times she wakes after 20 min. Problem is I don't know which one it's going to be so I don't know when to go in and stir her.

Ideas?

I really appreciate all your input. This is tough work but I know I'm doing the right thing for my LO.

[Ima shel Alon]

So the next thing I'm still working on is when to do the W2S?

Sorry, I can't help with that, I have very little experience with that and I never managed to get it right.

[ZacsMumme]

Are there any naps which she will always sleep 35-45 minutes? These are good naps to work on

[Activa]

Are there any naps which she will always sleep 35-45 minutes? These are good naps to work on

It's hit or miss.
I never know which naps are going to be short. I read over some of the FAQ stuff and am trying the approach where I just sit in the room for the naps so that I'm there for the big jolt around 20-25 min and then again there for w2s at 38 min. Hears hoping I can extend it.

Her protests for napping are getting better, it may have just been the learning curve. She now no longer cries much in the WD and fusses less while putting herself to sleep. The one trick I am learning is that I have to find the right position for her. If I lay her on her one side she may protest for a lot longer than if I move her to different positions. When I find the one she wants she settles almost instantly. She definitely has her preferences, thing is they are different each nap so it's always a guessing game!

We will see how today goes. Thank goodness for iPads so that at least I can entertain myself while I sit.

[ZacsMumme]

When I find the one she wants she settles almost instantly. She definitely has her preferences, thing is they are different each nap so it's always a guessing game!

Yes we have had a roll onto one side and patt...he fights us....roll onto other side and pat...he nods off