3 yo 10 hour nights - many meltdowns!

[mmom]

M turned 3 in July.  Has has not had a nap in several months.  He was doing about 11 hours without one and even if he got 30 minutes, bedtime was a disaster.  But his behavior has been terrible lately. He is crying over everything and his nights are getting shorter.  A couple of weeks ago, I returned to work and he actually asked his babysitter for a pull up and a nap a couple of times.  He never does that here.  All he does is fight us.  He has been waking between 5-5:30, while he used to sleep until 6-6:30.  Due to how cranky he is, we try to have him down early (6), but he normally screams and fights us for at least 1 hour.  Sometimes, his nights are even 9.5 hours.

I don't know what we should aim for anymore.  All of this crying can't just be a new personality thing can it?  Is 10 hours enough?

[Shiv52]

{{{hugs hun}}}

I wouldn't have thought 10 hours is enough.  M was 3 in April and we've been on one nap for a while now.  Recently though i am noticing it all catching up on her and she is really tired. But she in general is having 12 hour nights and it still doesn't seem enough over the course of the week.

Did the babysitter let him nap?  I have resolved to let M have a catch up nap every couple of weeks and just let her have a late bedtime or the behaviour gets really silly.

Your DS sounds OT to me.  What is the earliest you can do bedtime?  Has he ever tacked on lost day sleep to his night sleep?

Only very recently has M started doing slightly longer nights so early bedtimes here as no use as she just wakes 12 hours later so I do tend to stick to our normal bedtime and do really low key things...really easy dinner, nice long bath, cartoon...anything to get us through. 

[mmom]

Thank you for the reply.

M has done a 12 hour night maybe 3x in his entire life.   He is definitely low sleep needs and was fighting bt every night with a nap, which is why we dropped it.  Honestly, he was doing well with 11 hours for a while.  But maybe he is growing or more active and needs more sleep.  I agree with you, that he is OT.  When he was at the baby sitter's, she did let him sleep.  The problem for us is, he doesn't sleep here.  He screams and fights the whole time.  Sometimes, I can get him to nap when he gets to this point and then when I let him nap, his night is even shorter.  So I don't even know what to aim for when I let him nap.

We really do try for an early bt and the screaming goes on for ages.  Every night is a struggle.  We started the battle at 5:30 the other night and it went on until almost 7.  So yes, we can do early bts, but it doesn't end up being an early bt because of the fight.

We also found that he doesn't tack on sleep. When we were aiming for 6 and he actually went to bed at 6, he woke at 5.  11 hours seemed to be his max.  So we always aimed for 7 to at least get a 6 wake up.

Sorry, I am not trying to be resistant to suggestions.  He is just so frustrating and always has been when it comes to sleep.  He seems to do exactly what he is not supposed to do at all times.

[sianie]

Oh Kara!

FWIW, we are in a very similar situation with M who dropped her nap back in April. Her nights started great, 12+ hours a night but after a couple of weeks nights got shorter & shorter & we've been in this long night/short night loop for months  

I agree with Shiv about letting him nap when he's at the babysitters, if it helps a bit then do it. Can you APOP a nap if necessary?

Lots of {{Hugs}}!

[Shiv52]

Sorry, I am not trying to be resistant to suggestions.  He is just so frustrating and always has been when it comes to sleep

oh no I totally get you.  Thats why i was asking.  Early bedtimes here are an absolute no-go.  She just wakes 11.5 hours later, sometimes now we have no nap 12 hours but generally 11.5.

DOes he understand that the reason he is so upset and getting annoyed etc is because he is tired? I've had great success talking to M about it all calmly and she seems to realise now that she is tired.  In the early days of nap dropping and still now I would allow M to lie on the settee and watch a DVD in the afternoon just to get a rest otherwise she just keeps going and going.  Sometimes she'd doze off.  A nap in bed at that stage would have been a major drama.  Having that rest seemed to revive her to get through to bedtime without so many meltdowns.  Although at the minute that time between 6-8pm is a bit rough but we're getting there.  Low key things help and she seems to need more 1:1.

Would DS go for a 'rest' time in the day even if it was just lying watching something?  Has he ever went back to sleep at those EWs?  

[mmom]

Sian, it stinks doesn't it?!

Shiv, he actually does rest a bit during the afternoon.  He will lay on the couch watching a show.  I have just wondered if it is enough.  I haven't tried much talking tbh.  I should though.  I will talk to DH about how tired he is, but not M.  We used to have him go to his room to rest/play and eventually he would fall asleep.  We stopped doing it because we didn't want him sleeping anymore.  But I am wondering if I should go back to that.

The mornings stink.   He wants out as soon as he wakes.  He actually used to stay until the sun came on his clock, but when he started PT'ing, he learned he could get out by saying he needs the toilet.  But I was just saying to DH this morning, that M poops in his pull up anyway and not on the potty, so why not make him wait for us to change it?   (The poop issue is a whole other issue we are having. )

[sianie]

We stopped doing it because we didn't want him sleeping anymore.  But I am wondering if I should go back to that.

You know that may be worth trying, especially as he seems so tired & is asking for naps at the sitters....even if he didn't actually sleep it would get him to rest?

[*Becky*]

kara - we are in the same position so I don't have any advice but it really sucks!