Am I expecting too much to hope for longer than 11hrs at night on a 1 nap day?

[clairebear79]

Thanks for the help Annette. 

We are already following the set naptime principle so that makes sense.  Boy I'd so love to be able to stick to a 5hr PM A time!  Its just not feasible to do 5pm BT's, esp with me going back to work b/c 1) he won't be home from nursery/grandparents until around 5.30pm (nor will I be home from work either!) & 2) DS doesn't sleep a 12hr night - we've only EVER had a couple & even when he's exhausted he doesn't often extend his nights.  So if I did a 5pm BT then I'd be looking at a 4-4.30am latest WU & I just really really can't face it ever again.  You may remember I had horrendous EW for a very long time?! Yesterday we did 6.10pm BT & he was up at 5.40am & that is the earliest for a good few weeks.  I am also clinging onto the hope that he will naturally start to catch up on his sleep overnight & then I can push it all later - but I am truly worried that maybe by doing 5.5hrs PM A time its a step too far & he will never ever catch up & just remain constantly OT - is that what you are saying?

Ugh I am sick of fretting over naps with this boy.  I wish he could just handle his A times & sleep well without OT & be a happy baby. 

[clairebear79]

Ugh quick help needed ladies if anyone is around?!

O slept 12h 5mins last night (with a fair bit of crying after BT) - Annette it sounds like he's starting with his catch up!!  He woke at 6.35am.

Nap is due to start at 11am (this was 5hrs A as he was previously waking at 6am).  So, now he's finally woken later, do I need to keep that nap at 11am so I am consistent or do I need to keep with the 5hrs A?  He is absolutely shattered & my head says stick at 11am nap b/c that is his routine (for this wk at least) & I can work on pushing his nap later in a week or 2 once he is used to the 1 nap.  But in the back of my mind I am worrying that 4.5hrs A isnt going to give me a decent enough nap to last him til BT.  WWYD

[sianie]

Sorry, this is probably too late....what did you do in the end?

[clairebear79]

I PD at 10.50 aiming for asleep at 11.  He didnt settle until 11.10am & then woke at 11.50am, 12.25pm, 12.40pm, 12.45pm & finally started really bawling at 12.50pm.  I went up to him & he'd done a poo.  Its never possible to resettle him once I go in so that was nap over.  He slept 1h 40 in total, albeit rather disturbed.  Not sure if OT, UT or simply down to the poo.  My guess is OT.

Am I being really stupid with this Sian?  I just want him to get used to the set nap, but then don't know what to do if his WU gets later as obviously the nap ideally needs to move more towards midday.  But if I push too much too soon I'm just adding to his OT rather than allowing him to catch up a bit.

It leaves us in a pickle for today as he was up from his nap at 12.50 & we've to get til 6.30pm on just 1h 40 sleep.  I am tempted to try & take a drive around 4/4.30 & let him have a CN if he wants to snooze.  Does that sound sensible

[~Sara~]

I would definitely try to fit in a little catnap today.  He's going to need it, and you BOTH will need it in order to preserve a decent bedtime/wake-up time.

I don't think you need to focus on a set nap, per se.  It sounds like he's more A time driven, and pushing him beyond what he's capable of just sends him into OT territory.  As his wake-up time evens out (6:30 isn't all that bad...really any 30 minute deviation is considered normal), adjust his nap to that.

It might be that you end up alternating 1 nap days with 2 nap days.  For example, say he wakes at 6am:

Wake 6
A: 5h
Nap: 11-1
A: 5h
Bedtime 6

Wake 5:30
A: 5h
Nap: 10:30-11 (I'd cap it at 1h to encourage a catnap)
A: 4.5h
Nap: 3:30-4/4:15
Bedtime 7/7:30

So, it's not pretty...but just an idea I had.  That gives you a chance at a decent wake-up time every other day.  Things will settle down!!  And don't worry about what other babies are doing.  The average range for dropping to one nap is 12-18 months.  He's still on the early side, so just tread gently (for your sake, too!!).

*hugs*

[sianie]

Totally agree with Sara....you have to tread carefully when going through transitions & it might just be that he's not yet ready to consistently handle 1 nap days.

[clairebear79]

Thanks ladies.

I went for a long walk with him in the stroller this afternoon but he didnt sleep.  So we just did BT at 6.30pm & he was asleep at 6.40.  He handled the afternoon fairly well & I think that was b/c he got a decent night's rest last night.  So for now I'm going to carry on with the nap at 11am for consistency, but if absolutely necessary, I will offer a short CN where needed.

Fingers crossed in a few more days we might start to see some improvements. 

[clairebear79]

Ladies, can anyone help me with this?

For the last 2 nights, O has woken at around 8pm & sobbed uncontrollably.  He is clearly tired (& OT) from our 1 nap transition, but its very unusual for him to cry like this.  He may often cry out, but its an 'I'm tired & frustrated' kind of cry & usually I don't need to go to him.  This is like nothing I've ever heard before.  Last night I waited a couple of minutes just to be sure if he really needed me & he resettled quickly.  Tonight - I just knew it was an 'I need you'.  He was very very distressed.  I went in to him & he wanted to be picked up so I did.  He kept rubbing his nose & burying his head into me & crying & he felt a little hot (though could have been down to crying).  I tried to give him some meds  but he refused to take them.  Once he was calm I PD & left the room & he started trying to settle.  Repeat another episode of crying & then another.  He was up for around 30mins altogether, & is now asleep again.

This is so unlike him.  He's just cut 4 canines all at once - they are through the gum now but have still to push upwards fully so I know that could be bothering him, & he's also got a runny nose today.  He had his MMR, Hib/Men C & Pneumococcal jabs last Thursday too so I know there's potential for him to be having some side effects (runny nose can be one of them).  Plus I have had tonsilitis this week.

Does it sound like he might be poorly rather than just OT???

[~Sara~]

He might be, hon.  Before I got to your second to last paragraph, I was thinking teeth tbh.  Could be some more teeth coming through and/or the shots or a sore throat.  If he's at all OT, those things could just be complicating it.

*hugs* If you start to suspect he's sick, he might just have really wonky sleep until he's better...then you can go back to focusing on the 2-1 transition.

[sianie]

I also think it sounds like teeth bothering him.

[clairebear79]

Hi all.  He's poorly.  We were up 3 times in the night with him crying inconsolably.  This morning he's shaking, has a fever, was completely disinterested in his brekky & drank only half his bottle then threw it all up all over me!  He's shattered so plans on hold for now.

[~Sara~]

*hugs* and speedy recovery vibes being sent pronto!!

[clairebear79]

Hi ladies.  Things have all gone to pot here since DS has been poorly (was a 24hr bug).  I think horrendous OT has set in & I really don't know how to recover the situation.

The last few days went:

21/9
Wake: 6.35
Nap:  11.10 - 12.50     (A = 4h 35  S = 1h 40) - nap was very disturbed with repeated WU's.  He'd got a dirty nappy
BT:     6.30                (A = 5h 40)   - crying hard at 8pm for 30mins then again at 12.15am & 5am - poorly

22/9
Wake: 7.05
Nap:   11.35 - 1.25    (A = 4h 30  S = 1h 50) - solid nap
CN:     4.25 - 4.35     (A = 3h      S = 10min) - in car
BT:     7.00   (repeated NW's in the early part of the night)

23/9
Wake: 6.30
Nap:  11.15 - 12.00  (A = 4h 45  S = 45mins) - woke happy left him for 40mins to resettle but no.  He'd pooed again.
Nap:   1.30 - 2.00    (A = 1h 30  S = 30mins) - in car on way to mums - b/c he was clearly exhausted
CN:    4.20 - 4.40    (A = 2h 20  S = 20mins)  - in car on way home from mums - again b/c he was clearly exhausted
BT:    6.45   (repeated NW's in the early part of the night)

24/9 (today)
Wake:  6.45
Nap:   11.25-12.25  (A = 4h 40   S = 1hr)  - tried to PD for 11.15am but think he was well OT by then he struggled to settle then woke after 30mins then again after 1hr - clearly OT but wouldnt resettle)
CN:    4.10-4.30     (A = 3h 45  S = 20min) - went for walk this avo to try for a further nap but he didnt sleep, despite clearly being exhausted.  Eventually took a car drive & he napped.  He was whining with tiredness & laying his head on the floor by 5.30pm.
BT:    6.20pm

So as you can see the 1 nap plan isn't going so well.  Because his WU has gotten later I was worried he may do an UT nap with a set nap at 11am, so I nudged it a little later, but clearly the wrong decision as he's exhausted. He is very very overtired & I'm actually suspecting he may be chronically OT as he rarely has clear tired signs & is often verging on loopy, AND he has permanent HUGE grey bags under his eyes. 

I really don't quite know how to put things right ladies.  Do I just need to ride this out until he's used to napping at 11am?  Or is it time to say - ok this clearly isn't working - he's not ready for 1 nap?  In which case how do I re-implement a 2 nap routine & help him get over his OT?  I could easily put him down for a nap at 9 or 9.30am tomorrow but I know if I do that he'll sleep a good 1.5hrs then refuse to nap for the rest of the day, even if he is OT.  I am seriously struggling b/c I don't really know what his A times are & he barely shows tired cues b/c I've not been consistent enough with him & as I say I think he's chronically OT.  I absolutely NEED to get some decent sleep into him tomorrow as he is at nursery on Monday & he doesn't sleep well there.  And its my first day back at work & I need him to be in a reasonable state so they aren't ringing me asking me to come get him.  Aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!

[Roseii]

((hugs)) and BREATHE
Nursery will have to handle him as best they can, will they AP naps? DD's nursery always did, I frequently saw carers rocking/cuddling babies to sleep. I know not ideal for your BW plans but it mightn't affect how he settles at home anyway, and I'm guessing you'd rather sleep AP'd than not at all.
Maybe you need to revert to a decent morning nap and a car catnap late avo? See how he gets on and begin pushing that morning nap out later and later...And yes I'm afraid we have to ride out these sh*tty transitions as best we can sweetie, you're doing a great job and keeping as in tune with him as is humanly possible xxx

[clairebear79]

Thanks Charli

Yesterday, would you believe he woke at 7.20am so did a 13hr night!  I kept the nap where it was at 11.15am which was just under 4hrs A, even though I knew it would risk a shorter nap through being UT, b/c he still looked really tired, even after 13hrs sleep.  He napped a solid 1.5hrs, up at 12.45 & that was it for the day.  CN refused.  BT was 6.30pm & it took him until 6.45 to go to sleep due to OT.  A bit of an UT/OT loop I think.

Of course, today being my first day at work & his nursery day, he woke early at 5.50am.   Shorter night due to OT I think.  He actually napped well at nursery today, but they kept him up right til 11.25 (5.5hrs A) so there's no wonder he needed a 2hr sleep.  He's very very OT tonight & crying out at every sleep cycle.  Oh & at nursery, they will & do AP naps, even though I would really prefer them not to.  They have found that DS naps better if he's left alone though 

WRT your suggestion to revert to a decent AM nap plus CN - I am totally prepared to try & take him for a car CN if his main nap goes wrong, but its so unreliable, as often he just will not sleep.  So I don't think its feasible to cut back that AM A time & rely on getting a CN every day b/c it just doesn't happen.  We've tried several times before & he always refuses the PM nap & then gets OT.  The only way I can practically do 2 naps is with short AM/long PM.  Though that was getting really tough hence why we decided to try 1.

However, we are 10 days into doing 1 nap (at a set time) & his WU is jumping all over the place & so is the length of his nap.  Shouldn't things start to settle down soon & his WU start to be more consistent  I feel like I have this all wrong.    Would he cope better if I did naps after X amount of A time rather than a set nap  I just worry that b/c his nights aren't consistent, what works & gives a good nap one day won't do the same the next day.

Hmmm.....