Help for a friend...tryiong to get lo into crib after using swing exclusively

[We Three]

Hi guys....pls feel free to move this if you think it would be best elsewhere.
 
 I have a friend who has a beautiful baby girl who just turned one this week.  Mom is trying to get baby to sleep in her crib, but is having a VERY hard time.
 Babe has slept in a swing (a low swing...Fisher Price something? Rocking Wonders? ) and they are trying to get her into her crib. Mom is really distressed, the lo becomes hysterical at the mere sight of her crib, and cried so hard she vomited.     Mom is responsive always...has tried her own version of WI/WO and also PU/PD as well as sitting by the crib holding lo's hand.  But the lo just is hysterical, and Mom is finding it impossible to hear her so hysterical, and told me her baby has never cried so hard.   

  I lent out BWSAYP....would that go into greater detail?  I am not sure how to help her, but I really, really want to.  GW would be my guess, but Mom's presence seems to make things even worse. LO just goes crazy and wants Mommy, of course.
  I will print out any advice you guys have and show her.....can you help?  Mom is super upset and just wants to do the right thing.   TIA   

[Tweakster]

Aww that's hard Anne.  I think GW is probably the way to go when weaning from a prop.  And after all that time of LO having assistance to sleep it's not surprising LO is upset.  She has to plow through it and stay consistent for it to be successful.  I'd either try a modified shush/pat + GW or WI/WO - steer away from PU/PD as it may be confusing and super stimulating to a LO who has never slept independently.  She doesn't know what she's supposed to be doing.  Do we know what temperament her LO is?

Ear plugs can really help.  You can still hear LO but it mutes it so that mom's own physical response to the crying isn't as bad.

Does she have help?  I'd also take mom out of the equation for a while - can her DH/DP help out?  Has LO ever had any sleeps in her crib?  Naps even?  Is she on a good routine so we can rule that out?

[We Three]

 Those are great questions Wendy. I'll try to get answers.  I do know that Dad was on duty a time or two, but I think he tolerates the crying and Mom just can't bear it.  It sounds like the lo is in great distress, not just crying iykwim.   
  She has never slept in her crib. I think (not sure) it began because the new baby was waking big sister.

  I am usually good at advice, but when the lo is walked into her room, the hysteria begins. I have no  idea what to tell Mom to do if the poor baby is clawing at her, choking and hysterical. I wouldn't be able to walk away either.  I know the lo is confused...and that's why it's so hard. Her Mom feels a tremendous sense of guilt (this is what I picked up from her anyway) that she began the habit and now feels so bad for trying to break it. 

 So if GW, and Mom sits on the floor hand holding...and baby is beside herself, does Mom continue to sit? How responsive should she be at that point? Just keep sitting calmly and repeating the same phrase? UGH...so hard.  Thank the sweet Lord I never had to go through this because I would have sucked at it. 

[Shiv52]

Poor baby and poor lady too.

Is she doing a winddown Anne? I wonder could she do a nice relaxing winddown and give last bottle/BF and then cuddle and get the LO really drowsy and only then put her in the crib?  And ssh-pat from there?   So dont' hold until totally asleep but very nearly and then over a few weeks work on putting her in more and more awake.

I agree with Wendy that I wouldn't lift out of the crib once LO is in it as it can be really confusing for LOs as they think 'yes I'm getting out of here' only to calm down and be put back in the crib again. 

I do think it is important to know there will be a lot of crying.   And not to start sleep training if she's not 100% sure about getting her in the crib as it would be worse to start and give in and get her out and back in the swing. 

I have heard of mum's actually getting in the crib with their LOs when so upset but you'd have to fade that back fairly quick as it would be a hard prop to break.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I have heard of mum's actually getting in the crib with their LOs when so upset but you'd have to fade that back fairly quick as it would be a hard prop to break.

Doesn't Tracy even mention that in one of her books??  I've done it before, but not as a regular thing! I also remember a section that talked about making the crib a fun and safe place for lo's who have a phobia by using it as a place to play and hang out during A time.

I agree with getting her really drowsy and shh/patting her off to sleep and then using GW from there.  For sure there will be alot of crying (second the earplugs!), we have had a few phases of this with Spencer (after tonsil surgery, after I was in hospital) where she panics if I am not there with her and I end up sitting by her bed patting her off to sleep for a few days.  But I know she has the skills to sleep to begin with, so not quite the same.

[Tweakster]

Yeah Heidi I was just going to write that.  LO should spend more time in the crib and her room just as A time, she can play with toys, read books to her, etc.  Just to get her comfy with her surroundings. 

And great what Shiv has suggested about the wind down.  Longer more gradual wind down. 

The crying is going to be intense and hard.  But it's not about LO needing her really.  She is just used to being put to sleep and wants it to stay the same.  I know it's really really hard to hear LO cry but she has to be 100% consistent for this to work.  It's harder on LO if you do random reinforcement and confuse the issue.  So once she is prepared to start this we can help her through.

[anna*]

Sorry reading on my phone so may have missed, but would also suggest spending entire A times in the nursery, in and around the cot... So that it's a happy place.

[We Three]

Fantastic advice for sure.  I am going to print this out and show it to her, am seeing her at a party tomorrow.  Can I ask though...how to make the crib a "happy" place if the baby goes insane when put in it?  I guess gradually, sit "near" it and then work our way closer?  Tough with an active 4 year old around too...but I know it has to happen. Also great advice to be 100% sure she is ready to plow forward, as any regression will just compound and prolong the whole issue. 

[anna*]

Put teddy and dolly to bed - watch the 4-y-o putting toys to bed - crawl around and play peekaboo underneath/around it - play in the room but not in the cot - just do normal games/activities but in the nursery.

[Shiv52]

I'd say you could involve the 4 YO in the fun.  Rosa loves getting in her cot with Maeve and looking at books and if the LO sees the bigger LO in there enjoying it, it may work quicker!  They could even lie in the cot under a blanket and mummy could come looking for them and do peek a boo.  But yes `start playing in the room and build up to games in the cot xx

[Tweakster]

Yeah peek a boo is a great game.  Start in the room and gradually get LO in the cot.  A routinely used consistent wind down should help this.  Where is the swing?  I would put the swing in the room.  That's how we started when F was 6 mths.  We did the prop weaning thing but he was a lot younger and didn't have object permanence.

[We Three]

Not sure where the swing is....but if she puts it in the room isn't that confusing? Shouldn't it be out of the equation?  I did suggest putting the swing "in" the crib at first, but it's not safe.  LOve the idea of playing in the room more, and involving big sis...love the idea of the 2 girls in the crib, just playing! Love it!

[Tweakster]

It may be.  Hard to say with an older LO.  It might be easier for her even if she just gets rid of it altogether.  But if she's going to keep using it and doing this gradually ie working up to it, then it might help LO get more used to being in her room first.  If she's going to go cold turkey, which is probably the best way for all, then I would get it out of the house altogether.  If it's there and things go sour, it's too tempting. 

Give her hugs from us, we've all been there in one way or another - it's really really hard.  That's why Tracy wrote a book about it all   She knew that we all need our hands held through it.