Author Topic: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!  (Read 1455 times)

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Offline baileyscommet

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Hi, My 10 and a half month old is exclusively bf and will not take a bottle/beaker/cup of milk. He wakes frequently throughout the night and I have just got into the habit of feeding him each time he wakes....should I feed him each time he wakes? I think part of the problem is that he feeds to sleep. I've used the forum before to try to break the feeding to sleep cycle and got great advice but it just doesn't work or rather I can't make the advice work as he falls asleep as soon as the boob is in his mouth! He doesn't feed to sleep for naps but is now rocked and sung to...another prop but I don't mind this or am I making a rod for my own back in the future?

Also how often should I be feeding him throughout the day, I'm feeding around 5 - 6 times but wondering whether I should be feeding on demand now. He doesn't take much water at all so I'm worried about cutting back on day feeds but feel like I'm also feeding him with his 3 solid meals a day and snacks (we blw).

Basically I'm exhausted. He had severe reflux which meant he only ever slept for an hour at a time (and in my arms in upright position) until he was around 7 months. He has only ever slept through the night (12 - 5) a total of 7 times since he was born. Normally I can handle this but lately I feel like I'm running on empty. Most mornings he is awake from 4.30 am and won't take a nap until around 10 ish. Even though he wakes at 4.30 for the day he will have woken once if not twice before.

I love bf but it's beginning to take its toll now and he won't take a bottle or cup or beaker for milk, even if its expressed milk. Any advice?

Offline Shiv52

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2011, 23:18:04 pm »
At 10.5 months 4 feeds through the day so long as he is well established on solids should be more than enough.  I fed am, after am nap, after pm nap and bedtime at that stage.

I can understand why you must be totally exhausted.  At this stage I can't imagine he needs a NF, or if he does it should be one NF at the very most. 

Is his reflux under control now?  Would DH be willing to settle him at night to help break the feeding to sleep habit?  I would worry about replacing it with rockign.   Would you feel comfortable with rocking until nearly asleep and then getting him down drowsy for naps and work on getting him down more and more away over a week or so.

I do think the NWs will be easier solved if you tackle getting him to go to sleep independently as at the minute he seems to be in the habit of using the breast to get back to sleep at night.  What I can say is is that it will  be a rough week but its an easier prop to break at this age than in 6 months time. 

What do you feel you would be comfortable tackling?  And is DH able to help out?





Offline baileyscommet

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 12:59:58 pm »
Hi, Yes his reflux has disappeared completely, it did at around 8 months (thank goodness). DH would be willing to help but the problem that we face is that as soon as he gets on the breast he is asleep. I'm really not sure how we can stop this?

I have tried the rocking till nearly asleep and then putting in his cot but we have never got him to 'independent sleep' completely. For some reason we always revert to rocking him and I'm not sure why.

I think I'm ready to tackle this now but I feel so guilty as he loves going to sleep in my arms and at the breast but I also see that the longer he does this the longer he is likely to breastfeed. I love breastfeeding but like I said, I'm running on empty at the minute, I'm just exhausted. Also because of this I haven't been able to have a night out (not that I'm a party goer but I have a teenage son and I can't spend any time with him because of my lo's sleeping issues).

How would you propose we tackle this? Now is probably a good time because DH is off work now until the new year.

Offline Shiv52

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 22:57:15 pm »
That's good your DH is off work. What is your routine like in the day? What is your bedtime routine and winddown? It could be worth moving the BF earlier rather than last thing to stop him using it to fall asleep. Does he fall asleep for naps using BFing too?





Offline baileyscommet

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 11:39:57 am »
Hi, Sorry that I haven't responded for a while, I've felt a little down as after initially speaking to my oh he isn't as willing as he originally said. He can't understand why I would want to stop feeding him to sleep or to wake him after feeding before putting him to bed. I've tried to explain that if we do feed to sleep for his BT then when he wakes he’ll expect that in the night.....so looks like I'm on my own.

We don't have a great routine every day is different in terms of naps if he has them.

Wake up is anywhere between 4.30 and 6.30.
BF: 7am and breakfast at 8am
Sleep normally between 9.30 and 10.30
BF at 11am with Lunch at 12
BF at 3pm
Dinner at 5.30pm
Bath at 6pm
Play until 7pm
BF at 7pm till 8pmish (both sides) then once he is asleep I’ll carry him to his cot.

If he wakes in the night I have to feed until asleep. On Monday night he slept through the night, so I know he can do it (8 – 6.30)! Then last night he woke just once and fed between 3.30 and 4.40am. When I put him in his cot he woke so I had to rock him to sleep and finally got him back in his cot at 5am.

The problem I have is that EVERY single night is different. So his NW’s aren’t habitual. Does he still need a NF? Should I offer this straight away?

For naps, I sing to him and rock him to sleep in a rocking chair (takes no more than 5 mins normally unless he is very overtired and then he really fights me)...

I feel so confused, should I stop the NF’s? I love the BF but it is really draining me at the minute.

Offline Shiv52

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2011, 15:57:12 pm »
Only seeing your reply.  Am so sorry you've been feeling down about it.  i think you need to speak to your OH and tell him that no  one person can go on being up numerous times a night and still be expected to function.  I had to take a hard line with my DH when DD1 for to be about 11-12 months as I did all bedtimes and NWs and it really does put a strain on you.  We alternated bedtimes so I'd BF and then he'd take her on to bed and shh-pat until asleep. 

I think at 10 months your LO shouldn't need a NF  but both mine did have a feed in the night until a year. 

Then last night he woke just once and fed between 3.30 and 4.40am. When I put him in his cot he woke so I had to rock him to sleep and finally got him back in his cot at 5am.
In this instance I think this is where you get OH to take over.  yes you've fed like he wants, but let it be his responsibility to resettle LO to sleep.  You can't be expected to be the only one handling the NWs if OH is off work.  Would he see that as a reasonable compromise?





Offline baileyscommet

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 08:49:22 am »
Sorry for the delay in replying, we've not had the best Christmas with two family health scares, so my mind has been elsewhere. I'm at my wits end, last night my lo had 3 NW's at 9.45pm (went back in his cot at 10.30pm), then 2am but I couldn't get him down until 3.30am and then again at 4.40am. This time I had to get OH up as I was just exhausted. He managed to get him back down by 5.15am but he was awake for the day at 6 - even though I'm going to bed around 10pm ish (last night it was 10.30 once lo was asleep) I never get more than 5 ish hours sleep. I should be able to function on that shouldn't I? I'm wondering if it's because he is feeding so much that I'm feeling so tired? I've always been little but I'm at the lightest weight I've ever been and I don't seem to have any energy despite eating lots (mainly rubbish food because I'm so tired and trying to cheer myself up). Will this affect me do you think?

The feeding sensation has really changed and it really grates on me, I can't wait for him to stop feeding lately.

OH is about to go back to work so I've lost out on any help he might be offering. I guess I've realised over the past few days that I'm 'attachment parenting' which I want to do but I'm just exhausted. I really need to stop the 'feed to sleep cycle' but how? As soon as he latches on he's flat out.....

Offline kellyincali

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 19:20:42 pm »
Oh honey! {{HUGS!}} You sound exhausted! Five hours of sleep might be enough for some people, but when it's fragmented into an hour here or 30 minutes there, it's not enough for anyone, not even your LO. So your energy level is most likely due to not getting a full night's sleep in nearly a year. Oh, that and keeping a child alive with your body 24 hours a day. :)

I guess I've realised over the past few days that I'm 'attachment parenting' which I want to do but I'm just exhausted.

This sounds to me like you've come to a crossroads: Do you want to be full-on attachment parent or do you want to do the BW thing?

Dr. Sears would tell you to co-sleep, since that's what many attachment parents do; it means that your LO can feed to sleep and you can catch some shut-eye. In fact, I might even recommend doing that at this point (if you can sleep that way) for a couple of nights just to get some sleep since OH is not interested in getting involved. I'm in the same position: DH wants no part of sleep training DS2, so I've been co-sleeping for the last two nights just to get more than 60 minutes of consecutive sleep. We'll begin sleep training soon... hopefully.

Tracey, on the other hand, would tell you to stop feeding to sleep and use PU/PD (or a modified version of PU/PD at this age) to teach independent sleep. Keep your LO in the crib, tank him up with some DFs and only offer the breast when you think he's genuinely hungry, which he probably isn't at 9:45pm after you fed him at BT.

Neither of the above approaches is wrong or right, it's just a preference. But as Tracey says often, start as you mean to go on. Where do you want to be a year from now? Do you like the idea of the family bed or would you rather he stay in his crib at that age?

Offline baileyscommet

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 21:02:10 pm »
Thanks for your advice. I'm completely torn. I love the idea of attachment parenting and I guess I do in every other respect but my partner isn't keen on sharing our bed. I also co-slept with my first and he was 7 before he slept through the night without me laying with him whilst he went to sleep. I would of course fall asleep and miss half the evening so had very little 'grown up down time' - I don't want to repeat that.

I'm torn! I think that realistically I can't carry on like I am for much longer. You've made the choices clear and I couldn't see that (for tiredness I guess). So I still want to breastfeed but every evening he falls asleep on the breast. It seems unfair to wake him to teach him indepedent sleeping - what do you think? At the minute if he wakes in the night I feed him and put him in his cot. If he wakes when I put him down, I pick him up and sit back on the rocking chair and rock him until asleep. I guess this is the bit that I need to stop doing? So I should use PU/PD? But he will cry won't he and I need to remember that this is okay because I am with him and he is not alone and afraid?

Offline kellyincali

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 04:03:40 am »
From what you've said, it seems to me that you want your LO to sleep in his own crib throughout the night.

As to how to go about it... you can still bf him at BT and then start cutting down on NFs gradually. Though if it were me, I'd stop nursing him to sleep. Period. I know you've said that he falls asleep the instant he latches on, so maybe you should change up the BT routine. Instead of bath, pjs, book, bf, then bed, you can do bf, bath, pjs, and bed. So then, if he falls asleep on the breast, you wake him up (I know, this is REALLY hard!) and move to the next part of the routine. At the end of the routine, tell him good night (or whatever sleepy phrase you've decided on) and put him in the crib. Then do PU/PD.

Unfortunately, I'm not the best person to ask about PU/PD (we'll be jumping into it soon), so I'd suggest you pop over to the PU/PD board or maybe even the Props board for a little more in-depth help. There are a lot of women on the Props board who are trying to get past the nursing-to-sleep prop, so there are LOTS of helpful threads there.

As for the NWs, I did this recently, so I'll tell you what I did and maybe a moderator can give you more (or better!) feedback than me. I decided that I wasn't going to feed DS until after 2am. I'd do the last feed at 6pm, DFs at 8pm and 10:30pm and then I wouldn't feed him until 2am. If he woke up, I went in and shh/pat (I think you'd use PU/PD at your LO's age) until he fell back asleep. Then when he woke up the next time, after 2 am, I fed him and put him back down awake and used shh/pat again. Then after a couple of days, I moved the time back to 3am. Then 4am. Etc, etc. I think this would be WAY easier on you than just going cold turkey, like Tracy recommends in BWSAYP. However, if he wakes up at 1:30am and is still awake at 2, then you keep on trying to get him back to sleep. Don't feed him until he goes back to sleep and then wakes up again. For example, when I did this with DS, he woke up at 1:45am, so I resettled him around 2:30 and then when he woke again at 3am, I fed him and put him back down. It's hard. It's really hard. Especially when the answer to all of your problems is just sitting there on your chest waiting to be used. So I'd really recommend that you do some APOPing (like cosleeping) to get some sleep first so you are less likely to give in.

Yes, he's going to cry. At his age, he can cry pretty hard, too. I used ear plugs the first couple of nights when doing the NW elimination. But you need to keep in mind that he's crying because he doesn't like the change. I did CIO with my first and I can tell you that the cries coming from DS1's room and the cries that DS2 made are COMPLETELY different. DS1 was alone, scared and feeling abandoned while DS2 was just ed. I promise that your LO will know you are there and isn't going to feel like you left him, he'll just be mad that you're not giving him what he wants. And really? If he were 3yo and wanted to eat cookies all night, you'd tell him "no" no matter how hard he protested, right? That's what will be happening. He wants cookies, but you know sleep is better for him.

I really hope I made some sense and answered some of your questions.

Offline Erin M

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Re: BF a 10 and a half month old - a few questions...and advice required pls!
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 04:17:17 am »
You might want to switch your BT routine so you're bfing before his bath - so feed, bath, downtime (books, rocking, etc) and then into bed.  He will cry the first several nights because you're changing things and change is hard!  Since you'll be there reassuring him though, you are not letting him cry alone, you're helping him learn how to go to sleep on his own!  Pp is right - it's your decision as to how you want to approach this - but whatever you decide, be consistent. 

Here's some info on the gradual removal plan, which is 1 way to wean night feeds -- gentler than pu/pd though it takes longer  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

Posted at same time as pp - fab advice there!
Yes, pick a time that you won't nurse before and stick to it, but make sure he's asleep first (otherwise you'll reinforce the idea that he has to cry for hours to be fed)