nap change up/easy

[myboyblue]

My DS 5.5 months old. here is my easy for 3.5 days of easy. My ? is can I extend 2nd nap for 2.5-3hrs and get rid of CN (as seems to have longer 2nd nap) and adjust easy rest of day?, so he gets good naps as not liking CN. I understand he can have 2 2-3hr naps but what about 40-1hr 1st nap and 2nd 2-3hr? (Sorry I think I answered my own question). If extended 1st A do I extend 2nd A or judge son? I am cut/paste as suggested by lil_g (was on easy page). I read the posts and I too am finding mom groups in area offered mostly between either 1st nap or 2nd, wanted to know if worth changing his schedule once a week (only after have been at EASY for 2 weeks thought)  
DAY 1
woken up at 7
e 7
A 745-940
S cry PUPD shh/pat till 1025 S for 10min
E 11
A 1120-1220
S 1220-130 cry, 135-3 S
E 3 both Breast for 10 min
A 315-510
CN 515-40 cry
A 545-630
E 630-650 both B
7 0 cry fell asleep in 10min
DF 830 & 1100 (used to feed every 2hrs)

Day2
Awake at 645 played with self till 7
E 7
A 720-835
S 835 PUPD shh/pat-901 s901-945 tired to get back -1040 gave up
E 1055-1130 EBM 4.5oz
A 1130-1245
S 1245-50 PUPD, 1250-150 then put self back till 3
E 3-30
A 330-5
S 5-15 settled self s515-540
E 645-705
A bath
S 720 by self
DF 11
stirred at 140 & 440 for about 20 min but put self back to sleep

DAY 3
awaken at 7
E 705-40
A 740-845
S 845-10 played with self 10-1030 PUPD shh/pat then took out of crib
E 11 5oz EBM
A 1135-1245
S 1245-55 cry shh/pat PUPD 1255-3 sleep
E 3-350 during feeds I give rest with A time then try to feed again
A 350- 510
CN 510-540 cry PUPD/shh/pat
A 540-630
E 630-705
S 710 fussy for 10 min then slept
DF 1045
Awake 340-430 played with self 430-515 shh/pat
S515-700 when I woke him up

Day 4
E 7-750
A 750-930 as believed not tried
S 930-1005 played with self/cry/shh/pat s1005-1050
E 1057-1140
A 1140-1255
S 1255-108 mantra/looking at me and smiling, fell asleep 108-345 (when I woke him up)
E 345-430
A 430-630
E 630-715
A bath
S 715-1030 fell asleep with 10 min
NW woke up 10 min before I was going to do DF. Tried get back to sleep for 1 hr with shh/pat but I did not want DF to be to late
DF 1130-12 5 oz of EBM pumped only got 3oz ( I will try to up supply, for 5 th day I will give EBM to    see if getting enough
NW 420-540 cry/shh/pat, fell asleep 540-rest of day to come

[creations]

Hi there.
It looks to me like your A times are somewhat inconsistant.
eg. day 1 awake 7am, looks like you tried for sleep at 9.40, this is a 2hr 40 A time which is long for 5.5 months
day 2 awake 6.45am, tried for sleep at 8.35, this is 1hr 50 A time which is short for the age

The first thing I would suggest is to try for a 2hr 15 A time in the morning for several days and lets see if the nap gets a little easier.  You must count the A time from when LO wakes up to when he falls to sleep.  I see you are using PU/PD at the moment to sleep train, this means that you are less able to judge the time when LO is going to fall to sleep because you don't know how long it will take him to settle.  But try for a 2hr 15 A time, it may make the settling easier because he is more likely to be ready for sleep.

To answer your question on nap length and the EASY routine fitting with groups:
If you find a routine that works for you and LO and LO appears well rested and happy then I'd say go for it.  The point of EASY is not so much that all naps must be the same length or all babies must be asleep at the same time, it is a routine which responds to the needs of LO and the family, the way I see it this also includes play groups which are good for LOs and mums to socialise and get a change of scene.
With my own LO we went out 4 afternoons per week, he had a long morning nap of 2hrs so was well rested before going out, then I organised things so he had a 40min nap in the car (only a 5 or 10 min drive, I sat in the car the rest of the time to allow him to sleep) then a 1.5hr play group followed by another nap in the car or 40 min to an hour.  This is not a regular EASY but it worked for us.  Keeping at least one nap per day regularly at home is a good idea.

To drop the CN your LO would usually need to be able to stay awake for 3hrs, this is usually at 6 months (some later) but it does depend on the LO and if they can handle that amount of awake time.

What is your concern about the CN?  It looks like LO is getting about 30 or 35 mins sleep there.  Is he very cranky or crying a lot before/after?  Is this why you would like to drop it?

[myboyblue]

Sorry that was writing error, day one tired nap at 840 not 940. So from 840-1025 no sleep. I was thinking that he was not tired as today slept For 45 min. Normally zero sleep for first nap. I did extend afternoon nap 1255-108 cry/laugh then slept till 345 when I woke him up. Can I make afternoon nap for 3 to 3.5 hrs?

 I have no problem with CN just that he cry/screams whole time I figure UT and prior to EASY he used to sleep 30min-2hrs anywhere from 845-945 (time nap started) and afternoon nap would start anywhere from 1-3pm and last 1.5-3.5hrs and rarely had another nap prior to BT 7-830. Mind you a lot of time he did fall asleep while eating just before nap started.
Only 1 day so far did he have 40 min the 2 other days cried whole time. Today as extended 2nd nap to 345 no CN and BT at 715 a little tried near end but so far went down okay (mind you he has only been sleeping for 1hr). Thanks for help

[creations]

Hi again.  A few questions.

When did you start EASY?
Has your LO ever gone to sleep independently or have you started to use PUPD to try to teach independent sleep?
Did you record your LOs eat and sleep routine for a few days prior to starting EASY?

I'm a little confused by your EASY records I think.  Are the times you have put times of actual sleep (eg for the CN) or the times you are hoping for sleep and are using PUPD with shush/pat to try to settle your LO but LO not sleeping at all?

[myboyblue]

I started EASY Sunday night (so for 5 nights and starting 5th day).
He has slept independent yes but, a lot of time nursed and fell asleep for naps after nursing I would turn him so he sat/rested in nursing cushion (head at base of u in cushion), or for BT/NW nursed himself to sleep and placed in crib. Occasionally was awake and would fall asleep by self.

No I did not write down but not hard to remember ruffly like this
Woke up at 645-8 E/A based on when last ate if longer than 4-5 hrs E if not A then
would E within 45 min
A either 720 or 745-9 or 945
E normally fell asleep if not would feed a little more after 20 min
S 9 or  in-between 9-10 would sleep anywhere from 30 min to 2hr
A depending on when woke up to 1245-3
E again would fall asleep
S anywhere from 1-3 would sleep  normally 2-3.5 hrs
A depending on when woke up 245-430 to BT
BT 730-9
NW anywhere from 2 hrs after going to bed to 4 hrs E, normally 2am then 5 but normally put self back to bed then would wake up about 7-730
( if had naps later woke up in the later times)

If there is no S beside it he did not sleep. Like with day 3 for first S from 845-10 played with self, 10-1030 pupd/shhpat no sleep took out. Same day 2nd S 1245-1255 pup/shh/pat, then slept 1255-3. Same day CN 510-540 cried no sleep.
So it has been looking like no morning nap to a short one, afternoon nap does well and only took CN 1 day door about 30min.
That is why on day 4 2nd nap sleep 245 min with no CN. I am sure he would of slept a little longer if I did not wake up.

I added on to EASY for last night. In the passed when was not sleeping much (basically at month 3 started sleeping only 2 hrs at a time day/night). I thought it was growth spurt but it lasted till starting of 4th month when made changes, but near end of fourth monthstarted doing 3 hr stretch would be longest.
Because of not sleeping we would try a few things but only lasted about 5 days and each day after stared sleep time would get shorter (if one night gave bottle with more EBM slept 5.5 hrs then next night 4 and so on)

[myboyblue]

Sorry for long post. I like to give a lot of detail.

[creations]

Hi there.
Firstly, sorry for the delay in replying, my DS had his immunisations yesterday and was feeling bad with it, so he needed my full attention.

Secondly, don't worry about a long post, it's useful to get information so we can offer the right kind of support for you.

As you've only started EASY 5 or 6 days ago and have some other routine and prop issues too I think it might be more useful for you to have an EASY mod to take a look at your whole routine including the feeds, nights, and props etc.  I'm going to see about moving your thread over to the EASY board for you to get support there OK?

x

[amayzie]

Hi myboyblue! Welcome back to the EASY board! Can you just tell me firstly how you are currently putting your LO to sleep most of the time?

AND As you're still only early to introducing EASY can you post your easy times for tomorrow- but just put down the times he eats, the time for his activity- counting the time from when he wakes up- to when he's asleep including all the settling, and the time for his sleep. so- like my example below:

E: 7:00
A: 7:00-9:30
S: 9:30-11:30
E: 11:30
A: 11:30-2:00
S: 2:00-4:00
E: 4:00
A: 4:00-7
E: 7
S: 7pm

At the end of the EASY pop down any extra details- like how tricky he was to get down for nap #1, #2 or #3 or bed time. This will give me a good idea how things are going!!

[myboyblue]

I watch to see if sleepy I will bring him to his room read a book, then turn him so his head is on my shoulders sit for about 5 min then place in crib and say goodnight/have a good nap. With BT 2 books and place in crib (normally BT is easiest, as tried).

Day5
I woke up at 710
E 730-815
A 815-940
S 940-10
A10-11
E 11-1150 5oz
A 1150-105
S 105-145
A 145-300
E 3-330 4.5oz
A 330-345
S 345-420
A 420-440
S 440-610
A 610-7
E 7-730
A 730-845
S 845-1025
Stirred for 10 min put self back to sleep
DF 1050-1110
Woke up 430-640 (then settle back to bed)
I woke up at 750
1st nap put down at 9, 9-940 cried/played with self no sleep. When woke up at 10 mantra/whimper to 1040 when I got out of bed
2nd nap put in crib at 1255, fell asleep in 10 min. After waking at 145 stayed in crib till 215 when took out. Left house 230, fell asleep in car 345-420 & 440-610.  This is first time going out, so not a typical day for him since starting EASY. 

For naps I find the shh/pat at times bugs him. And will this eventually become a prop in order to fall asleep? The other times I put my hand on his chest or shh/pat he looks at me, so I look aways as he starts to smile. Often I find I have to walk away because he seems to like me standing near him or is trying to get my attention. If I stay with him can I walk away prior to him falling asleep? Normally when I walk away crying gets worse for several minutes then tampers off to him lying there/playing with feet or his facecloth sized blanket, of which he often chews (teething believe).

[myboyblue]

For

As you've only started EASY 5 or 6 days ago and have some other routine and prop issues too I think it might be more useful for you to have an EASY mod to take a look at your whole routine including the feeds, nights, and props etc.  I'm going to see about moving your thread over to the EASY board for you to get support there OK?

What are the prop issues? Are they from before or am I starting new ones? I do believe that for naps I am starting to become a prop for him.

[creations]

What are the prop issues?

Hey there.  I think you were feeding to sleep from before you started EASY, this is a prop, I'm not suggesting any further prop unless you know of one.  Dropping props, starting EASY, a new routine, sleep training...it's all a lot in one go which is why I felt the bigger picture should be taken into account and support given for starting EASY as a whole rather than naps in isolation.
Don't worry too much about shush/pat being a prop, it's the easiest to wean off once you are in a good routine.

[myboyblue]

Thanks. I know there were a lot of things that I was doing wrong that needed to be changed. Looking back I should have focus on one at a time. But that is to late, so I will just keep to the schedule, but not as strict. Because of this I am not going to introduce food for a couple of weeks. Hopefully the adjustment on my LO won't be to bad

[amayzie]

hi myboyblue- Sounds like you are doing a really nice wind down routine! Looking at your EASY I think you might need to get his A times sorted. I think the reason he didn't settle for that first nap is that he needs more than 2 hours in the morning. Also he needs more than 2 hours between his other naps.

The playing around in the cot in the morning meant that he wasn't tired enough to go to sleep- but then when he did he was probably over tired!! (they are crazy like that!!)

Then the other naps that were only 40 minutes also suggest that he needs more A time.

So- you can try adding 10-15 minutes of A time onto his morning A time every few days. You should be aiming in the next month to get him close to 3 hours A time so that he can be down to 2 naps only- or as close to that as possible.

Have a look at this link!
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

and this one:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

The first link has a sample EASY that you might like- again- it's a sample, just to give you an idea- keep following your LOs cues!