3.5 month old NW....not sure what i am supposed to be doing

[lickertysplit]

Hello

I have a question regarding my daughter's NW.  I manage to get her down most nights by 7pm however this is usually under quite a bit of protest.  We then give her a DF between 10 - 10.30pm where she usually drains the bottle.  From then on she can wake every hour, she doesn't cry as such but moans and make noises to let me know she needs attention.  I usually go in and give her a dummy which sends her back to sleep for about another hour.  I make a call at either 2.30, 3.30 or 4.30 to feed her when she takes another full bottle.  I guess my question is, should i just feed her the first time she wakes or at this age am i trying to extend her sleep before feeding her?  I'm a bit confused on what i'm supposed to be doing.

I should mention that during the day she will only sleep for 45 mins but for the past week i have managed to extend these by picking her up and rocking her back to sleep.  She then goes down for about another hour, sometimes longer if i'm lucky.  Every time i put her down she cries as soon as i take her into her room.  She protests very loudly at being swaddled but will then usually settle with some gentle rocking and a dummy.  I try to put her in her bed before she is asleep.

Her A time during the day is anything from 1 hour to 1.5 hours.  She starts getting really grumpy and the hour mark so i start the wind down then and usually get her to sleep in 20 mins.

The other thing to note is that she is being treated for silent reflux. She has been on Zantec for the past 2 weeks and there has been a noticable improvement during the day.  We have now being prescribed Losec and start that today.

At this age am i supposed to be getting her to sleep as long as possible before feeding, or do i just feed as soon as she wakes up?  Even if this is only 3 hours after draining 8oz during the DF?

Thanks!

[Bex09]

Hi there, is your DD on a 3 hr EASY, feeding every 3 hrs in the day? If so then at this age it would not be uncommon for her to still need to feed as frequently at night too. Ideally you would love to push those night stretches longer, but in reality it doesn't always work like that! 

Have you tried feeding her if she wakes 3 hrs from the DF? If so does she settle quickly then? If she does then you know that it is probably hunger waking her. It could also be that the rocking her back to sleep has become a bit of a prop. Does she fall asleep independently though in her cot once drowsy?

My DD has silent reflux too and we saw huge improvements once she was on Lansoprazole, so hopefully you will start to see some much better spells of sleep once the PPI kicks in. It really was a miracle cure for our sleep problems.

[lickertysplit]

Hi
To be honest i really don't know that EASY schedule she is on!  I find it almost impossible to feed her when she wakes at 0700 - she never wants the food, half an Oz if that.  That then kind of throws the schedule off a bit....combined with the 45 minute naps. 

I would say she tends to have a 4 hour schedule in the morning that turns into a 3 hour schedule by the afternoon / BT. What i find really difficult is keeping to a regular pattern when she has naps like she does.  This week i have had success at extending naps from 45 mins to 2 hours so if that happens it can often be 4 hours between feeds.  If i don't manage to extend her naps then the feed cycle seems to be shorter.  Its a bit of a mess to be honest.

I'm hoping that the Losec will help settle her and allow me to get her more into a bit of a regular pattern.

She will go to sleep once drowsy but i think the rocking has become a bit of a prop. The thing i don't understand is why she gets so upset when i take her to bed.  Its almost like as soon as i walk in her room and lay her down to start swaddling she starts screaming.  I know she is tired but she protests so much.

The other thing to note is that not only will she not drink at 0700am, she will only ever take a maximum of 4Oz during the day.  She is a healthy size so i guess she just doesn't need anymore???

Like you...i'm hoping the Losec will be the answer to my prayers

[Bex09]

I am sure that the meds will make things a lot easier on you all hun.

Has your DD always had trouble with 45 minute naps? My DD did too and it was due to the reflux, once she was on the PPI she started to sleep for 2 hr naps! How did you manage to exend her naps to 2 hrs? Do you have her cot raised? This can help with reflux.

[lickertysplit]

I think the only time she didn't wake up before 45 mins was the first week....in hindsight, i think that was mostly due to the amount of drugs in her system after a very long and difficult birth. I never managed to breastfeed as i had a very large hemorrhage and never produced any milk.  I tried in vain for 6 weeks but it just never came.  I often wonder if that is the reason for all the problems we seem to be facing. 

The only way i can usually get her back to sleep is by picking her up and rocking her.  I have to catch it just right though..if i'm a few minutes too late, i have no chance.  I wouldn't mind so much it's just that as the day goes on, she gets progressively cranky.  I seem to spend my life putting her to bed.  In a four hour cycle it can look like EASASA then E...its exhausting when you do this 3 times in a day!

I have also found that she will now only sleep in her room, swaddled and with white noise.  She won't sleep on me now at all and i have no chance when i go out.  She hates her Bugaboo bassinet and the seat, she hates the car.  I have just bought a Chicco stroller as we are heading back to the UK soon and that seems to be keeping her a little happy. In a way i am almost regretting even starting an EASY as i feel its not working and just creating more problems.

We do raise her cot but it doesn't seem to make any difference during the day.  I really hope things improve soon as i'm beginning to feel very worn out by it all.  I'm looking forward to taking her back to the UK so the grandparents can help out for a few weeks...its been tough going so far.

[Bex09]

Oh huge hugs hun. Believe me I totally know how exhausting it is to have a LO with reflux and the sleep issues that come with it. Your DD sounds EXACTLY the same as mine was at that age. Please do not think it is the EASY routine that is causing this or not working, it really does work, but with refluxers there will always be added challenges I am afraid.mHave the new meds kicked in yet? Any signs of improvement?

Do you want to post you day in EAS format and I will see if we can get that sorted a little more for you? Don't worry about how messed up it is, we can see if anything jumps out that might need changing. Often if naps get better night time sleep follows. Hang in there.

[lickertysplit]

ok..here we go, I thought i would show two days so you can see how different they can be from one day to the next....thank you

Wednesday:

E: 0700 - only took 20mls
A: 0715
S: 0815

E: 0900 - 120mls
A: 0940
S: 1020 (first time she has ever slept this long without intervention)
A: 1155

E: 1230 - 40ml
A: 1245
S: 1255
A: 155
S: 300 (very unsettled)
A: 355

E: 500 - 100
A: 510
S: 525
A: 600 - Bath

E: 630 - 90ml
S: 715

DF: 1015 - 230 ml
Night wake: 0230 - 140ml

Thursday
Woke at 0630 (won't eat when she first wakes up)
E: 0730 - 90ml
S: 0755
A: 0955 (long sleep here as i managed to resettle with rocking and paci)

E: 1030 - 40ml
A: 1045
S: 1125
A: 1210
S: 1255
A: 150

E: 230 - 100ml
A: 245
S: 325
A: 405
S: 520
A: 600 - Bath

E: 630 - 150ml
A: 645 (wind down in room)
S: 730 (went down at 7pm but needed to put paci in a couple of times)

DF: 1015 - 210ml
Night feed: 0315 - 140ml

[lickertysplit]

I should add that since you first posted i have been feeding her the first time she wakes up...rather than trying to resettle as i have been.  This has been a big improvement as she takes the bottle, goes straight back to sleep and doesn't wake then until morning.

Previously i was trying to resettle, all that would do would mean me getting up every 45 mins or so before giving into the bottle.  I found that the longer i left it the more unsettled she would be for the rest of the night.

So the last three nights have been a vast improvement.  One question i have is you will see she drinks most at the DF and night feed.  She then won't eat much in the morning, which kind of throws things a bit off...should i be cutting back on these feeds???

Thank you!!!

[Bex09]

Hi there, so sorry in the delay getting back to you, I have been ill.

Anyway how are things now? That is great that your DD is settling so well after the NF, she was obviously waking hungry then. You could try offering slighly less during the NF and see if that makes her more hungry when she wakes for the day. If she starts waking earlier or again in the night though you may need to go back to offering more again. I wouldn't worry about the big DF, the more she takes the less hungry she should be later in the night.

[lickertysplit]

Hi, sorry to hear you have been poorly...no fun

Things are going ok.  I would say the meds are starting to kick-in as she generally seems much happier in herself.  Nights are going really well...i now feed her as soon as she stirs which can be anywhere between 0200 - 0400.  She seems to take the bottle well then go back to sleep until 0630 / 0700, which is great.  

The day naps are still the same.  I manage to extend a couple but only by picking her up and rocking her.  I guess i'm worried i'm creating a rod for my own back here but if she doesn't sleep for longer periods, she gets really cranky.

We are flying back to the UK in a couple of weeks (i live in Sydney) so there will be lots of changes regarding her settling...for a start, i won't have my glider chair so i guess that might put pay to the rocking.

I have been trying hard to extend her A time to at least 1hr 40 mins but its really hard.  Did you have chance to look at my EAS?  Any thoughts on that?

Thank you!

[Bex09]

That is great that the nights are going so well.

Looking at your EASY it does seem like your A times are a little short and then you are getting short naps too. So your DD is having more naps than is usual at this age. At this age most LOs would be doing around 1.5 hrs of A time. When you have increased A times have you made a sudden push adding a lot on at once or done it gradually and how long did you stick with it? I would only add 10 mins every 3 or 4 days until you are nearer the 1.5 hr mark. What do you think?

Have you tried any other ways to extend naps other than rocking? Like shush/pat or HTTJ? Often 45 minute naps can just be developmental until LO learns to transition sleep cycles. These links might help with some methods and ideas...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0