Really tricky NWs and I can't figure out why!

[ZacsMumme]

I have been thinking about you and your LO
A few random thoughts....

How is his diet, any new foods he has been having or foods he has been eating more or less of? I found we had awful NW when I gave Z too many apricots silly really, but he got a terribly sore tummy and the runs! Too much complex carbs can also make them a bit constipated and feel icky in the night when digesting.

Have you tried ibuprofen rather than pamol? If its teeth then the pamol may not be covering the discomfort. It doesn't for my LO

Does your LO settle when you are holding/comforting him?
HUGS

[LouiseV]

His diet's pretty consistent - I can't think of anything that might be doing it but will have a closer look!!!

Guess what - last night he did a 6 hour stint (until 12.30) and then woke just every 2 hours (can't believe I just said 'just'). He seemed a bit different - like, he didn't seem in pain so much as wanting me. For the first time in ages I thought to myself that it felt like a sleep issue not a pain one (and I think this has possibly come from being in discomfort for so long that its habitual to wake now?? maybe??). He was reaching for me (he wasn't doing this 2 weeks ago).

Once he woke and put himself back to sleep which is a HUGE shift back as he used to do this so well.

He won't settle in my arms - sometimes he snuggles in and cries and cries but he won't go back to sleep or stop crying or anything.

I had him on nurofen but it didnt seem to work (but it has before for teeth in the past)

Feeling slightly more positive - I can handle regular old sleep issues (haha) if thats what this is now...........

[ZacsMumme]

That is great progress. How were things last night?

[kobe77728]

Hi, we seem to have a similar problem to you, although not as bad, thankfully. I am sorry, it sounds horrendous for you.
My lo 15.5 months, seems to have one nw a night for a little over an hour, but what I find strange is I have no idea what is wrong and she seems like she wants to sleep but just can't. Sometimes she'll seem like she's fallen back to sleep only to wake up full on crying a few minutes later.
I don't think she is teething (she has 15 teeth), don't think she's ill, just got over chicken pox which is when this started, but I do get the impression she could be in pain. No change to diet lately but havent Written a diary.
I'll keep an eye on how you get on and let you know if I find a magical cure!

[Khalam's Mama]

The thing to bare in mind with intolerances is they tend to need to build up so you won't get perfect correlation with symptoms and food.
How are you doing Louise?

[LouiseV]

So, time for an update. I'm writing this quickly as I get teary when I think about it.

Things are so much worse now, its just getting ridiculous.

That one "good night" was all alone - I've kept him off dairy, hes on everything going from probiotics, melatonin natural syrup (not the drug) to gripe water and pamol when I'm unsure......

He's just NOT sleeping.

Last night he woke and I resettled with a feed about 3 hours after putting him down (the usual - starts off as a strained sounded whimper then progresses to a full blown scream) then an hour later he just started screaming really really loudly - no lead up or anything. I started wondering about night terrors?? I don't know - he was inconsolable. I'd feed but he'd start hungrily then turn his head away. Turning on the light sometimes 'reset' him as did Daddy coming in and making him giggle. Then he'd start up again.

Then he properly woke and was wide awake talking and laughing for 2-3 hours, I lost count. He was awake being either extremely unhappy or awake and chatting (and not taking feeds which is my last resort to settle him) for 4 hours in total.

I'm a wreck.

He has 1 nap a day - 2 hours usually but lately more like 1-1.5 because he's obviously OT despite being the happiest, most easy going little boy during the day. This horrible cycle had started before I transitioned to 1 nap and he definitely naps better now (previously he was having shorter naps and now he usually does really well)
I tried to give him another one today as he woke after 1hr 20 but he just won't do it - even if I try and AP him to sleep he wont have it. If I put him down sooner than 11.30 he sleeps for 1 hour 15 (a sure sign in him of UT) and doesn't seem remotely tired at all until just after 11.15 when I start the routine and get him down as quickly as I can.

On top of all of this, he has developed a cold today so is extremeley snotty so I think I'm going to have to continue trying to settle him until he's well again

I just feel like I've tried everything and we keep going further and further backward.

Any thoughts at all lovely ladies??

[Khalam's Mama]

We have started to get some slightly longer stretches by being very consistent with Pupd for his age. I think all the different ways trying to settle can be confusing. Now I need to be even more consistent to get rid of the early hrs feed too.

[LouiseV]

I think consistency is key here - but I tried PUPD reeeeeally consistently and after a week of exhausting myself and up to 3 hour stretches I gave up - it has worked before though.

I'm at the stage where I think I need to forget about the cause as this could now be habitual anyway, and look at things anew and start again.

Does anyone have any experience with walk in / walk out? Should I start a thread for support with that?

[ZacsMumme]

How old is your LO now hun? Am I right he is over 12 months?

If so I would start a new thread in TS (toddler sleep board) - You may get fresh eyes AND mummas that have LOs around the same age.
We did WI/WO with Z at 13 months and I was so scared to do it but he was fine. It worked very well and though the first 2 nights were hard (DH did them) afer 3 nights he was fine, no BT antics, no NW for feeds - bad aye! and no nuttiness. My Z is also touchy with sleep so gets wound up, but GW just didnt work, he got hyped up and wired.

You do need to feel confident he is well first. I know you never know 100% but for me it was having DH and I both agree we felt Z was well, his cries were frustration not pain and that is reflux was fully controlled at the time.

HUGS - So sorry things are still so tough.

FWIW we never had consistent STTN till 13 months - and we will have our periods of craziness

[LouiseV]

Thanks so much for all your input, thats a good plan. I'll keep going until this virus (and now tooth!) passes and then get some toddler help.

He has just turned 12 months - and started running and his party

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs give the bug time to pass, and tooth. So many hugs Hun. I do feel your pain

So cute about the running! Hope you had a lovely bday. Come join us on the 12-18 mth birth club if you like (not that I have left on it )

[LouiseV]

I'm just jumping back on this thread to update you guys who were all so helpful and in case anyone else finds this thread while looking for advice......

Well, its early days yet but we did it. M sleeps all night long before waking at 5.30 for a feed.....or an actual wake up!.....but that's the next part to be tackled....for now, we have a sleeper even if things are still tentative and will take time to consolidate

I'm a different person. I had no idea the effect of sleep deprivation. I felt physically ok - but mentally I was a wreck and its only now that I've had some proper sleep under my belt that I can fully see it.

We hit a tricky patch I think - teething and a cold - and my older baby quickly picked up on the new allowances I'd make for him and his temperament meant he wouldn't back down for anything! It took us around 2 months, maybe longer, of tweaking his routine, trying every method, being patient....and eventually I think this is what helped us (in case you're wondering!)
- Tweaking tweaking tweaking his EASY and giving changes time
- removing the anxiety at night - so, for a few weeks I just fed him when he wanted (as I did when he was teething)
- Making changes slowly - so, no feeding but lots of holding, singing and cuddles instead which made for LONG NWs for a week
- feeding at 5.30 and no earlier - sometimes he goes back to bed sometimes we get up but I think this might iron out eventually
- he has other things to help him sleep - white noise, a cuddly he adores and a sleep sack

Thanks for all of your input - heres hoping this lasts (til the next tooth haha)

[ZacsMumme]

Yay what a great update. Well done you sometimes it takes a while to get there but once you do it's so great...till the next time hehe x