Author Topic: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues  (Read 4350 times)

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ams1122

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Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« on: April 20, 2012, 13:28:56 pm »
Help!!! I have 17 month old twins boys who are happy and playful during the day, but can be pretty beastly at night!  We actually tried the CIO method when they were 13 months and had success, but between teething, winter colds, roseola, and more teething we got out of practice.  We tried to start over to get them back on track and now we have issues with crying so hard they puke.  They have become VERY dependant on sleeping next to me or my husband to fall asleep, and used to transition to the crib asleep well, but not anymore.  Now they wake and wont go back to sleep unless they are next to us on the couch or in bed.  I've check a bunch of different sites, books, blogs etc, but I havent found much out there for twins toddlers, most of it is for infants.  Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

Offline <Catherine>

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 13:52:47 pm »
Hi there, and welcome to the forum :)

Firstly, we do not agree with any kind of CIO here at BW, we believe it breaks trust between parents and baby - which is what you've experienced by the sounds of things :( Please have a read here:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=224729.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0

Are you able to give us an idea of what sort of routine they are on at the moment? Please include wake up time, nap time(s) and length, bedtime, and anything else that may be important. Do they have any props (dummy, bottle, etc)? And could there be any other issues here, such as teeth etc?

I have no experience with twins (I have enough trouble with my 1 toddler! ;) ) so will see if I can get some other help in here too :)
Catherine x








Offline emc

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 20:25:51 pm »
Hi,

I've twin toddler boys too, and I'm a single mum, so having them in bed with me doesn't really work.  One of them is very needy at night-time (I've actually wondered whether the stress I was under in pregnancy had a similar effect to what people say CIO does??).  I did most of my sleep training when they were relatively old - I think they were over a year when I started, and R has been going through a bad patch for the last month (at 21 months) - he won't really be happy unless I cuddle him to sleep which I won't - so perhaps some relevance to your question? 

I decided what I was prepared to do and what I wasn't - I don't hold his hand as he falls asleep (because he wakes up and cries again when I try to remove it) and I now don't lift him out the cot because putting him back in upsets him so much, and he's so heavy I can't do it without waking him, but I will sit with him if necessary.  I couldn't do it without him crying at all, but I don't let him get really upset, so it's all back and forward, and be prepared for slow going. At 17 months you do at least have the advantage of more understanding so you can tell them that they have to sleep in their cribs now but you are there.

It's all the BW techniques really, there are some in there for toddlers so have a look.  The gist, as I understand it, is do what is necessary to stop them getting too upset.  If they start to cry, ignore for a few seconds, if it starts to escalate shush them, then go in, then cuddle them, and as they settle stop doing these things one by one and go up and down that line.  They did and do sometimes get upset but I am there talking to them and stroking them, even though I won't do what they want and pick them up.  While I do it I tell them it's sleep time now (meaning so they can't get up, can't have hugs).  I think with your two, as with mine at first, you're better off reacting too quickly than too slowly as they escalate so fast and upset each other, but with time they're more likely to settle themselves.  And at first just stay with them and do everything you can to settle them and soothe them short of letting them sleep with you, then as they get used to that you can start withdrawing a bit.  I'm sure others know more here.

It sounds like it would be really helpful to you if you and your husband were able to both be around for bedtimes for a little bit (or two people anyway) and if it's possible I'd suggest either separate rooms or separate times as I found my two keep each other awake but tend not to wake each other up once they're asleep.  Otherwise just as you settle one, the other will start up and they'll both end up screaming because overtired.  But I did it on my own, just spend a fair bit of time sitting between their cots with a hand through each bar or an arm round two standing children. 

So, no magic solution, but it does work in time.  R still gets cross sometimes and cries and thrashes for a little bit (10-20 secs?) but then rolls back to where I'm sitting to have his hand stroked again and that settles him.  Now he's older if he stands up I tell him to lie down and I will stroke him once he's lying down and he understands that.  His twin nearly always settles himself. 

Do think about what you really want.  I found one stint in my bed equals 2 or 3 middle of the night tantrums when they can't do it again - the more inconsistent you are the harder it is.  Is it to settle themselves, to settle in their cribs, or to go in their cribs once they've fallen asleep?

An  optimistic thought to end on - I am very sure that if I ever had tried CIO they would have been the sort to scream themselves sick, but we're in a better place now.  Good luck. 

ams1122

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 22:11:49 pm »
Thanks.  What I'm really looking for is any suggestions that might haved worked for other people.  I understand some people are against the CIO method, but I am not.  I've seen it work personally and for others, with no damaging effects.  I'm open to suggestions, for any technique, but please keep the lectures or judgements about what I have chosen to yourself.

That said their schedule is the following:
7am wake up & bottle
8am breakfast
Play time in or outdoors
10am: snack
Playtime
12pm lunch
1-1.5 hr nap
Snack
Play
5:30:dinner
7PM bath, bottle, lullaby DVD & (hopefully) bed. 

My husband and I both work out of the home and live in an apt downstairs from my MIL who is our caregiver.  I leave at 7am and come home at 4:30pm.  My husband's hours are more sporadic and he is usually there for bed times. 

They use a pacifier, but will not take a stuffed animal or cuddly blanket.  We've tried numerous times with different types.  They recently cut all 4 1 year molars, but maybe their canines are coming in.  They dont look bulging and dont seem to be in pain though. 

They will not let you lay them down in the crib without a mini tantrum, even before any sleep solutions.  I will say thankfully they do not usually wake each other, which helps alot.  I really think the problem is the dependancy of laying with someone, I just dont know how to break the habit and keep my sanity.  Alot of times we cave in to their demands because we both have to work.  I also think that is counterproductive and largely the problem. 

Offline Shiv52

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 09:14:37 am »
What I'm really looking for is any suggestions that might haved worked for other people.  I understand some people are against the CIO method, but I am not.  I've seen it work personally and for others, with no damaging effects.  I'm open to suggestions, for any technique, but please keep the lectures or judgements about what I have chosen to yourself.
I'm very sorry you feel like this.  Have you read the BW books?  Tracy Hogg always believed there is a gentler way to help our LOs sleep than to break trust and let them CIO.   But as moderators of this site it is our role to mention that CIO is completely at odds with the BW philosophy and has no place here.   One of the bigger issues with CIO is that it doesn't actually teach self settling skills and any time you hit a milestone, teething, sickness you have to start all over again as you yourself have found.

 
I really think the problem is the dependancy of laying with someone, I just dont know how to break the habit and keep my sanity.  Alot of times we cave in to their demands because we both have to work.  I also think that is counterproductive and largely the problem.
I think you have hit the nail on the head.  I think it is largely a props issue in that they are expecting you to take them to your bed.   GW (gradual weaning) is probably your best bet to getting them to sleep independently.  So put them to bed and then just comfort from beside the crib until they go to sleep.  Same for NWs.   Use your sleepy phrase consistently and once you start sleep training do NOT give in as it is really confusing and will set you right be to the start.  Its tough with working so you are probably best starting on a friday night when you have the weekend to get DH to help.  

You need to prepare yourself for ALOT of crying initially.  But you are there comforting them and reassuring them its just sleep time and you are helping them learn to get themselves to sleep which is a skill in itself rather than leaving them to just CIO where they will end up sleeping as they are exhausted and have given up that you are coming.  My friend did this appraoch a few months back (the GW not CIO!) and the first night her DD cried and screamed for 5 hours as she was so so cross she wasn't getting taken to their bed.  Next night it was 2 hours and by night 5 they were able to just go in and resettle and then leave after 5 minutes and she started doing it herself.    It does take a good week of consistency though to start to see results.  But once kids have self settling skills it is much easier to get back on track after teeth and illnesses etc.

HTH
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 09:16:42 am by Shiv52 »





ams1122

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 11:21:56 am »
Thank you for the suggestions.  I will try weaning them, although it seems like every method is going to involve alot of crying, so to me they all feel the same.  Call it what you want.  I will be deleting my profile because I dont think this is the right place for me.  I will be searching for a non-judgemental parenting site that will provide helpful suggestions minus other parents forcing their beliefs on you, if one exists.

Offline <Catherine>

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 11:28:13 am »
I will try weaning them, although it seems like every method is going to involve alot of crying, so to me they all feel the same.  Call it what you want.
Leaving a baby to cry on it's own is very different - that baby does not know when/of anyone is going to come to them.

No one is 'judging' you here, we are simply offering advise - which is what you came here looking for. If CIO had worked for you then you then fine, but it doesn't appear to have done (in fact it seems to have left you with further issues) and it does not fit alongside the methods and techniques that Tracey Hogg left us with.

Catherine x








Offline Shiv52

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 11:35:18 am »
although it seems like every method is going to involve alot of crying, so to me they all feel the same.
Its true.  Especially at this age any change is going to involve a lot of crying but at BW we would never advocate leaving babies to cry alone while they learn the skills they need to sleep independently.  

other parents forcing their beliefs on you

This is a BabyWhisperer website based on the books written by Tracey Hogg.  Members here believe in her methods and as such it is a site devoted to helping parents use BW methods to parent their children.   So it is not us as parents forcing our beliefs on others, it is us as parents sharing the BW philosophy which is the purpose of this site. Sorry you do not feel supported but I hope you can understand that you will get much support here if you wish to use BW approaches but unfortunately we cannot support CIO/CC as they are not part of the BW's approach.  





Offline emc

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Re: Twin Toddlers Sleep Issues
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 13:51:25 pm »
Hi,

If you're still around hope my post didn't come over as judgemental, it wasn't meant that way.  For what it's worth, my two cried plenty but never got really upset or hysterical/vomiting which I'm pretty sure they would have with CIO.