Need Help Adjusting!

[kthow3]

Ugh, had another bad day!  It seems as though we go through a 2-3 day cycle (things are bad, then get better, then revert to being bad).  Sleep schedule for today:
7:00 woke (I woke him)
Slept 9:30-11:10
Slept 2-3:30 (I woke him)

Again, had difficulty with putting our DS down for the night.  He was acting tired at 4:30 (rubbing eyes, fussing, crying) and my husband put him down at 5:30.  He cried and cried, with multiple attempts at us soothing him.  He was quiet and sucking his thumb while we were rocking him, but his eyes were open and he was cooing occasionally.  We finally put him down at 7:30, though he did not fall asleep for awhile, and was playing happily in his crib.  I think he fell asleep a bit after 8:00.  I suppose I just don't know what to do.  Sometimes, when we put him down for naps (after I notice drowsy signs) he will take an hour or so to fall asleep and it is quite frustrating for me at this point.  I don't know if I am misreading his drowsy cues or if our soothing routine isn't cutting it, or if I am too late putting him down.  I feel like I am always second guessing myself and thinking about doing something differently/better.  I don't want him to spent all day in his crib when we could be playing!  He had been sleeping 16 hours per day (at about 5-6 mo) and now it has decreased significantly.  He had been sleeping 13.5 hours at night, and now he is sleeping 11 (if we're lucky, and he has frequent NW's).  Any advice?     

[becj86]

7:00 woke (I woke him)
Slept 9:30-11:10
Slept 2-3:30 (I woke him)

Ok, If you woke him at 7, you would be aiming for BT of 7pm. I wouldn't have woken him at 3:30 - I'd have thought about waking at 4 but not before that. With these 2 solid naps, they're ok to be 1.5-2hr long each. I think the NW's are OT.

Sometimes, when we put him down for naps (after I notice drowsy signs) he will take an hour or so to fall asleep and it is quite frustrating for me at this point.  I don't know if I am misreading his drowsy cues or if our soothing routine isn't cutting it, or if I am too late putting him down.  I feel like I am always second guessing myself and thinking about doing something differently/better.  I don't want him to spent all day in his crib when we could be playing!

When you notice drowsy signs, try a change of activity - he could just be bored. Keep doing this until he's still exhibiting tired signs just after changing activities, then put him down for a nap.

To be sleeping that much at 5-6 months, he's probably high sleep needs, so I'd stick with two long naps (wake at 2hr 15) and a 12hr night (BT 12hr after WU).

How does that sound?

[kthow3]

Thanks for the response!  It sounds good; but here's where I get confused.  The reason I woke him at 3:30 was because his last wakeful period has been 4 hours+ and it has been taking him a looooong time to fall asleep.  I am wondering if we do not try and put him down too early if that would help this as he would have more stimulation which would make him more tired?  I think part of the problem with the wacky sleep schedule is that he is put down too early for naps/bt which them means he plays in his crib for longer than he should, causing him to fall asleep later than he should, and then wake later than he should (except at night, where he wakes too early)?  Does that make sense?  And if so, any ideas on remedying that?  I am just having a hard time with timing/scheduling wakeful periods and nap lengths and BT's... he just seems to still be tired after all of his sleep period but then takes so long to fall asleep!
Thank you so much; it has been such a relief to have great feedback and someone to "talk" to about sleep issues!

[becj86]

I would say he maybe needs help to wind down from stimulating activity so he can go to sleep more easily - so maybe the last 5-10mins of his A time could be a walk around outside chatting about plants/animals/breeze, etc.

causing him to fall asleep later than he should, and then wake later than he should

This is a routine, not a schedule, so there's no time at which he 'should' wake up. He's not at an age now that you need to be feeding at specific intervals, so he can sleep for up to 2hr without a drama. I think he needs to be able to sleep the nap length he wants (unless more than 2hr or so) so he is getting the rest he needs so he's not OT as early wakings can be from overtiredness at bedtime.

[kthow3]

Thanks bec!   For the last 3 days, his day went as follows:
E- 7:00AM
A- 7:20 AM (solids, play, etc.)
S- 9:30 AM (I have been trying to stretch this with little success- the poor guy is exhuasted at 2.5 hrs)
E- 11:00AM
A- 11:20AM (solids, outing)
E- 2:30 (top-off bf nap)
S- 3:00/3:15
E- 4:30/5:00
A- 5:15 (solids, play, walk)
S- 7:00/7:30

That was for 3 days.  Yesterday, his last nap ended at 5:00, and we went for a walk, fed solids, etc.  I was thinking he wouldn't be tired for bt until at least 7:30, so he wasn't ready for bed until 7:10, at which point he was crying and (I think!) OT.  We put him in his crib at 7:20, and I stayed in his room to see what he did.  His eyes were closed, but he was rolling all over the crib, kicking his legs.  He would settle for a few minutes, then start again.  He did this until about 8:00.  Would this be OT?  He woke up today at 8:00.  Should I have woken him at 7:00/7:30 since I put him down last night about 7:20?  Or let him sleep since he wasn't quiet until 8?  Then, he fell asleep for his morning nap at 11:20.  This just seems late to me to be considered a morning "nap".  And, the reason I get concerned regarding the times he wakes/sleeps is because I am trying to preserve an early bt, so he is not going to sleep super late and taking late naps.  I feel like I need 25 hours in the day, as it seems like he wants to sleep and be awake one more hour than is in a day!   

[becj86]

His eyes were closed, but he was rolling all over the crib, kicking his legs.  He would settle for a few minutes, then start again.  He did this until about 8:00.  Would this be OT?

For my little fellow, this was head tired, body not tired - more physical activity required during his A time. We had massive struggles with this. More time on the floor with the opportunity to move was the key for us.

Should I have woken him at 7:00/7:30 since I put him down last night about 7:20?  Or let him sleep since he wasn't quiet until 8?

I think you should've woken him at 7, but not because of when you put him down - to keep his body clock learning that 7am is wake time and 7pm is sleep time. The body clock is a powerful thing and he probably was OT at 7:10 because his body is getting used to going to bed at 7.

back later, doing lunch with my toddler...

[kthow3]

I have been trying to figure out my guy's internal clock... he has always seemed to prefer waking around 8:00, and is slightly cranky when I wake him at 7:00.  We have tried waking him at 7:00 for a week or so in the past, and he just seems like he wants to sleep later.  But then, he always seems to want to take a nap around 9:30/10:00, which wouldn't work with a 8:00 wake up time, as it's not enough A time.  I didn't see your post until this morning, and had let him sleep until 7:45, when he woke up by himself.  I put him down for his nap at 10:45, and he is still sleeping (it's 12:05 now).  Should I be concerned about the timing of his naps?  Meaning, I had read in other books that the first nap should start about 9-10 and the second nap should start between 12 and 2.  And, if he has 12 hour days and 12 hour nights, does it matter as much when the second nap ends?  He has been sleeping from 3:30-5:00 when I wake him, as I am concerned that if I let him sleep too long he won't be able to fall asleep at 7/8 for bt.  I know you had said before that I should let him sleep for as long as he needs (up to about 2 hours), but do I need to be concerned about letting him sleep too late in the afternoon?
I will definitely try more pysical activity to tire his little body out a bit more.  I feel as though he is restless quite often so hoping this will help!
Thanks again, you're so helpful! 

[kthow3]

Tonight, when I put him down at 7:45, he was still squirming/kicking/not seeming super tired.  I put him down anyways, as this is pretty typical as of late for him.  He seems tired around 7:00ish, and then I try to put him down early, but he doesn't seems super tired so I figure he is not sleepy and continue the bedtime routine (if that makes sense).  It turns into a suuuper long bt routine, and by the time I actually do put him down he is squirming and not relaxed, at which point I wonder if I should keep soothing or keep him up or just leave him.  I am thinking we need some consistency with wake up times, but just unsure what time to make it (see above).  And could also use some advice as for what to do when putting him down; if his bt is to be 7:00, do I start the bt routine at 6:30 then put him down at 7:00 even if I am unsure if he is actually tired? 

[becj86]

he has always seemed to prefer waking around 8:00

Likely related to when he goes to sleep at night...

The most important thing is to aim for the 12hr day/12hr night. Most babies sleep better at night if that is 7-7 but some do great with 6-6 or 8-8. It doesn't matter too much about when the 'morning' nap is, and you can sometimes run into issues with too short an A time before BT and end up with UT NW's - typically long, happy wakings around 3 or 4am. However, given his NW's, etc. I'd stick with this routine for a while and deal with UT if it happens.

You don't want LO to be OT for BT, just tired from the day, so he shouldn't really seem really tired, just tired is fine

[kthow3]

Thanks for your advice!  I feel I am good to go for awhile here, but may ask more questions if they arise!  We'll figure things out, slow but sure (I keep telling that to my LO, so it must be true!).