Falls Asleep NP, but wakes every 2 hours

[jtjamccoy]

Hi i am new to the forum, i have read the BW - Solves all your problems and loved it. my 2 year old son was definatly an angle baby/ now toddler and i had no troubles with him, He STTN since 3 months.i now have a now 7 mnth old DD, i did test and she is deffinatly spririted. She has never STTN, and this is why i came accross Tracy's method.

I have applied the EASY routine with her and she took to it great. I have her on the 4 hour routine for just over a week now, we wake at 7 (i wake her if she is not up) and follow the 4 hour routine with anking up at 5:30ish 7:30 ish and DF at 10:30ish. She is great for falling asleep. It is also much easier to catch her sleepy signs now with the routine, I can go to her room shut window rap her in her blanket and i lie her in crib with her lovey blanket beside her that she rubbs on her face and turn on soothing sound maker that plays for 10min, i walk out of room and she is out by the time it finishs. (I know i got her signal wrong or she has hit over tired cause as soon as i lie her down she will scream). The problem is at night. I usually give her the tank up feed at 10:30 - 11. And she is still wakeing almost every two hours some times three after that, (wich drives me crazy cause she goes 4 between feedings during the day).

When she wakes I lie and listen and only go to her only once she has actually started her "mom were are you cry", because some times will make noise or do her mantra cry and will go back to sleep. I tried PU/PD to prolong her to her next feed for three nights in a row and she just screems gets very upset that i am not feeding her. I had just been feeding her when she woke befor a week ago so i know i have created a habbit, but she would nurse activly for the 10 or 15 min wich is what she does during her regular feeds.

So my question is how do i get out of this night wakeing routine, like i said the pu/pd just does not work for her just makes her angryer. And she screams i scream i dont ever hear out of her.

Thanks for your time.

[katie80]

Hi there and welcome to BW!

Well done on getting her to on a 4 hr EASY routine and self-settling.  That will be half your battle.  Is she taking many solids during the day?  Does she take full naps?  Would you post your EASY routine for us to take a look at? So...

Wake and E: 7 am
A
S
E
...

I do beleive that if she can go 4 hr during the day between feeds, she can go that long at night.  Yes, she is not going to like it when you first try it and will most definitely scream, but if you are consistent in not feeding her, then she will eventually not wake for it.  When you tired PUPD, did you eventually end up feeding her, then, or how did she go back to sleep?  Have you tried to settle her with just shh/pat (or some variation that suits her) instead? Often, PUPD can be quite stimulating for spiriteds and another method might work better.

[jtjamccoy]

Thanks for responding,

I have stuck to a fairly strick schedual (give or take 15min). From when i started over a week ago, I even have a timer on my phone to go off at feed times so i dont lose track of time. I myself am not naturally a routine person so it was def more of an adjustment for me.  so her schedual looks like this.
E - 7:00
A -7:15
S - 9:30
E - 11:00
A -11:15
S - 1:15 -1:30
E - 3:00
A - 3:15
E - 5:30
A -5:15
E - 7:30
A -7:45 - quit time/bed time rutine
S- 8:00
Dream Feed at 10:30
then she wakes around 12:30 ish

Somewere in the 2cd hour

usually wakes between 4-6

I wake her the next day and start again.

She is not takeing to solids, I try every morning about half hour to and hour after i feed her and she will make a face with every mouth full. But i just keep with it every day and tell her how yummy it is. I have tried cerials (i have tried rice cerial and mixed cerial with fruit, both mixed with water and BM. as well as sweet potato). She also refusses a bottle and just screams if my husband or anyone offers it, she plays with it and chews it if i offer. So i do have a hard time trying to offer extra caleries in a day. When i did pu/pd she woke at 12:15 and i did it with her for an hour and she went back to sleep, and 20min later woke up again. and she contuned to cry and get progresivly more up set, i feed her at 2 because at that point she had gone 3 1/2 hours with out feeding and when i pu she was nussling my neck. I had read in the book always feed a hungery baby so i did. she was drowsy once she finished nursing and i just put her straigh to her crib wich i gave her her blanket an turned on music she went to sleep. she was up again at 4:20 I did another hour and a half of PU/PD befor i feed her again. she slept for and hour and i woke her at 7. Second night was not far off except she never did the 20min sleep. i also was not pu so much as just comforting her in bed. She did not liked being patted but the shh sound did help calm her. also i even tried lieing beside her in the crib. By third night i was tired my two year old had been cranky all day and DH did not complain but i know he had to have had ruff day at work, i still did not give into her right away but i only pu/pd for an hour rather then 1 1/2 to 2 hours. so the last 6 nights i woke and would cut her off after 5 min of BF as per a suggestion i read on on of the threds in here.  I just dont know were to go from there how to wean out the feedings in that manner. Any suggetions will help me at best she has slept 3 hours. there was one fluk night she did a 5 hour stretch i felt wonderful! Thanks so much!

[jtjamccoy]

So my questions are. Is this how PU/ PD should work? Should i not feed her from 10:30 11:00ish till 7? It just feels like such a jump because she is only going 2 hours right now. Should i start with doing PU/PD for a 4 hour stretch as i know (for the first few nights at lest) she is just going to cry from when she wake till when i feed her. but then if i do that how do i then wean out that one night feed once she has excepted that? thanks again for your time.
 

[becj86]

Are you doing PUPD and then feeding without her going to sleep at all? If so, you need to stop! If you do PUPD and then feed without her having gone to sleep, you're reinforcing that if she screams long enough, she'll get a feed and it'll make the whole process so much harder for you and her. I see you're online, so I'll post this and then read the rest for you 

[becj86]

She seems like she's feeding a lot at night and may actually be taking a lot of calories then and not many during the day. Is she distracted during day feeds?

S - 1:15 -1:30
E - 3:00
A - 3:15
E - 5:30
A -5:15
E - 7:30
A -7:45 - quit time/bed time rutine
S- 8:00

Does she sleep more in there?

I have a spirited. They are hard work but they're also wonderful fun! Lets get this sleeping thing sorted so you can enjoy the fun bits!

[jtjamccoy]

Yes i did just feed her befor she went to sleep. So i did that wrong, I thought i was to P/U P/D until next feeding time (wich i guess is supposed to not be till morn). So if she sleeps then wakes and it has been over 4 hours should i feed her? Or should i not feed her till morning (7:00). Her room is upstairs right beside DH and mine room and over top of her bothers room, So i was thinking that i should move her crib in the dinning room (wich is the farthest away from the bed rooms) and i sleep in there with her, for a few nights till the worst of the crying is over so i do not keep DH DS up all night as well. Do you think this would be too distracting for Her? Or will it just start all over again when i move her back to her room?

As for her feeds they are usually 10-15min long 20 min at most the bed time feed can go longer but she gets into a sucking for the comfort. She is deffinatly more distratced for feeds during the day, as i have a 2 year old and so we come sit on the couch for feeds and any noise he makes (wich is quit often) she wants to see what he is doing. I feed her more often at night as i was trying to "tank up" Her bed time feed is the only one she gets to have in the quit of her room as my husband is home then and he spends time and does BTR with our son.

and for the sleep no i cant get her to take a nap between her second nap and bed time. I think it is because DH comes home and she dos not want to miss out on him. last to days I have let her nap go till 330 as i know she wont sleep befor bed.

As for her being wonderful fun, she is, She is such a happy baby when she is awake. I my self am a high energy person so once i start getting full night sleeps i think i will really be able to have the energy to appreciat her.

[katie80]

Ok, yes, Bec is right, you can't PUPD and then stop to feed.  That will just tell her that if she cries for long enough, eventually you'll feed her.  However, you don't have to make her go all the way til morning if you don't feel like she's ready.  If you want to start with the 4 hr interval, that's a good time, I think, esp as she's not taking to solids.  So, you'll need to PUPD until she falls asleep, even if it ends up going over the 4 hr.  Then, even is she sleeps for only 20 min, you can feed her when she wakes again.  So, basically the 4 hr time limit here is your reference (not when you'll feed her, iyswim); if she wakes before it, you PUPD and don't stop until she falls asleep.

I personally wouldn't move her crib to the dining room.  If she's spirited, I think that's likely to just make the whole process longer. Is it possible for your DH and DS to stay with friends or family for a night or two while you work on this?  An alternative would be to get some white noise for both of them, so hopefully they can sleep through the crying better.  And remember, PUPD isn't the only option.  If she likes the shhing, you can use that while rubbing her back or stroking her forehead as well.  Basically, you're just trying to soothe her without feeding her to sleep and then you can gradually wean any patting or rubbing that you may need to.

Without a CN, the last A of the day is really too long, which is why Bec asked about that.  She's ending the day OT, which is going to make it harder for her to settle in the middle of the night. It's pretty normal at this age for them not to have the CN anymore, but you either need to let her nap for longer or go for an earlier bedtime.  Are you waking her from naps to keep to the 4 hr routine.  If so, I'd let her go for up to 2 hr at each nap and that should get you to a 7/7:30 pm bedtime. Or, if the last nap ends at 3/3:30 pm, I'd shoot for a 6:30 pm bedtime.

(((Hugs))), sleep training is definitely hard work, but you're right, think of how much more you'll be able to enjoy her and your DS once this all gets sorted.

[becj86]

So if she sleeps then wakes and it has been over 4 hours should i feed her?

Yes. That's the idea.

So i was thinking that i should move her crib in the dinning room (wich is the farthest away from the bed rooms) and i sleep in there with her, for a few nights till the worst of the crying is over so i do not keep DH DS up all night as well. Do you think this would be too distracting for Her? Or will it just start all over again when i move her back to her room?

Yeah, I think at 7 months, she'll be aware of where she is and it'll be another change. Spiriteds often don't adapt to change easily and a change in where she's sleeping will likely set off more issues. Maybe DH and DS could camp in the dining room/back yard? Boys own adventure for them while you get it sorted?

The tanking up happens in the early evening so she is not hungry so much at night so she can sleep.

and for the sleep no i cant get her to take a nap between her second nap and bed time. I think it is because DH comes home and she dos not want to miss out on him. last to days I have let her nap go till 330 as i know she wont sleep befor bed.

Maybe DH needs to get involved more in her BTR too - maybe a bath together with DS or something... you know your family better than I do and will be able to think of something appropriate, I'm sure. I understand that DS needs his Daddy-time too, maybe DD has bath and Daddy time and is in bed early (like 6pm) and DS gets a solid hour of daddy-time til 7?

[jtjamccoy]

Thanks Soooo much this was all very helpful. I am back at PU/ PD or what ever form of it that works for us tonight. I will keep at it till she sleeps and will not give in till we sleep and have crossed the 4 hr mark. She will be staying in her room so I have given DH the heads up that i am starting tonight and will be at till for how ever meny nights its going to take and offered for him to camp out in Dinning room but he is willing to stay in our bed (i may need a hug if i ever make it back to are bed . As for my son, he is at least easy to get back to sleep, usually does it on his own, so we will plan easy days for him to not set off tired tantrums.

Without a CN, the last A of the day is really too long, which is why Bec asked about that.  She's ending the day OT, which is going to make it harder for her to settle in the middle of the night. It's pretty normal at this age for them not to have the CN anymore, but you either need to let her nap for longer or go for an earlier bedtime.  Are you waking her from naps to keep to the 4 hr routine.  If so, I'd let her go for up to 2 hr at each nap and that should get you to a 7/7:30 pm bedtime. Or, if the last nap ends at 3/3:30 pm, I'd shoot for a 6:30 pm bedtime

I will start letting her sleep longer naps because i have been waking her for feeds and see how far in the after noons we get, i also will move her bed time up.

Maybe DH needs to get involved more in her BTR too - maybe a bath together with DS or something... you know your family better than I do and will be able to think of something appropriate, I'm sure. I understand that DS needs his Daddy-time too, maybe DD has bath and Daddy time and is in bed early (like 6pm) and DS gets a solid hour of daddy-time til 7?

This is a great idea, i will start feeding her bed time feed and letting daddy do wind down routine. He feels no conection with her because she is so dependent on me for BF this will give him some thing other then play he can do with her. Also lets him be someone who can help her relax.

Well her is to some sleepless nights wich hopfully end in sleep filled ones. Thanks so much for the support and feed back.

[katie80]

Good luck, hon! It will be worth it and yes, a hug from a supportive DH after a round of PUPD is always helpful.

I will start letting her sleep longer naps because i have been waking her for feeds and see how far in the after noons we get, i also will move her bed time up.

At this age, the strict 4 hr feeds doesn't really apply. I'd take naps over feeds. However, since she's not taking many solids, if you feel like she starts waking from naps due to hunger, you could always offer a small top up feed 30 min before nap time.

[becj86]

Good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you. Keep us posted

[neonneuron]

Hi I thought I'd just post a quick message of support as I'm having exactly the same problem with my boy. He's 6 months old and waking every 2 hrs even though he easily goes for 4 hrs between feed during the day.

I've been doing Pu/PD between 4 hr feeds in the night for about a week now and he does generally settle much more quickly when he wakes up (except at his 2am wakening).

Fingers crossed that they both start sleeping through sometime soon

[jtjamccoy]

Thanks so much for the support, Last nigh was long, woke at 12 and did pu pd/ shh pat for 2 hours. Slept 10 min and i feed her as we had passed the 4 hour mark. Slept for an hour and started again as it was her 4 oclock waking time. But i was able to settle her much quicker in the second half of the night and we got a pu lie down pat routine that settled her really well. So i have confidence that though i know she will wake tonight at least she wont be crying as much and i hope she will let herself fall asleep sooner.

neonneuron thanks for your support sometimes it makes it easier to know you are not the only one dealing with a stuborn baby.

[katie80]

Glad to hear you found a method that works well for her and you're feeling confident.  It will get better and quicker.  You're doing great, keep up the good work!!