Author Topic: Messing about then crying at bedtime  (Read 1552 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Messing about then crying at bedtime
« on: November 09, 2011, 19:24:05 pm »
Please can you help?  I'm completely at a loss.

For about 3 months ds (he’s now 2.5 yrs) has been crying at bedtime.  In the beginning it started as him trying to avoid bedtime, saying things like ‘no, it’s not bedtime’, then he started making requests, like one more hug, one more kiss, he wanted to go and say night night to everyone one more time, one more book, one more lullaby, etc.  For a while I complied (I was trying to give him a bit of leeway as 4 months ago we moved out of the house we had been in since his birth, we went to stay in a house he was familiar with, his gran’s house in India) but then bedtime suddenly became 30 mins long or more and it made getting him into bed on time a nightmare.  But then he didn’t seem to be stressed about the move in any other way and it really started to seem as if he was just manipulating us to try and get us to put off bedtime and/or stay in the room with him longer. 

So we decided that seeing as there was nothing really wrong with him, no sickness, teething, etc, we decided to treat it as a tantrum, otherwise, as experience showed, we’d be in and out of the room over and over and he wouldn’t go to sleep for ages.  So we told him ‘we love you but we’re not having messing at bedtime.  Mummy and daddy will be in the next room but we’re not coming in again till the morning.’  Now we are certainly not fans of CIO, (and we never ever came close to it before, I was always really careful about that) but he seems quite smart and emotionally mature for his age, so we were sure that he’d be able to understand it.  And besides at this point we didn’t see any alternative.  We thought that we would probably go through a few days of him crying on his own in the cot after we left the room (which we did), but that it would die down soon.  Well it did die down after a few days but it then it continued on and off over the weeks.  We didn't seem to see any negative effects from this, we still continue to have a very trusting relationship with our son in every other aspect and a very strong bond and he still seems very secure.  I don't think it's fear of the bed or bedroom, there doesn't seem to be any sign of that and some nights he's quite happy to go to sleep with no fuss.

Then a month ago I returned to the uk with him and what with my jet lag I mistakenly ended up putting him down an hour early for bed, but he slept!   For two weeks he was sleeping that extra hour and seemed better rested during the day.  I wondered if the bedtime messing was overtiredness, but no, it continued.

Our standard bedtime routine is this.

5.15pm – dinner
6.00 – potty, bath
6.30 – nappy, pjs
6.45 - say night night, read a book, lullabies, hug, kiss
7.00 – into bed

He always requests an extra lullaby, I allow one extra, but no more.  He always requests extra hugs and kisses, I allow one extra but no more.  I never allow him to go and say night night more than once.  In the last month I have been particularly consistent but still he’s asking for more and ends up crying alone.  Not every night, but probably every other night.  I can’t see any other pattern to it, or any other causative factors. 

Since the clocks went back he’s struggled to get back on track and he’s been a little overtired, which is now being compounded by the fact that he’s crying and potentially delaying the time he goes to sleep (I say potentially because with the fact that he often lies awake but very quietly at bedtime, it’s difficult to know if I’ve got the timing perfect, but actually I think I must have because he was doing it for two weeks with no problem).

Last night I said to him, ‘Eli it’s time to go to sleep now, please stop crying otherwise you’ll be crying on your own again.’  And he told me he wanted to cry on his own.  Tonight I said ‘Eli please settle down now, stop crying and go to sleep’.  He said ‘I want to cry.  I want to cry for ages.’  It’s absolutely heartbreaking, but I don’t know what to do.  Can you suggest anything?


Lia

Offline <Catherine>

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 149
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10265
  • Location: UK
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 19:21:30 pm »
Aw hun, it's horrible to hear them cry, especially hearing him saying those things :( I'm having similar with my DS at nap time, he's getting so frustrated and upset because he doesnt want to nap, but he so needs it.

Is your DS still napping? What time does he wake in the morning, and what time and length is his nap?

Is he having any NWs or EWs at all? Is the issue only at BT?
Catherine x








Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 10:57:36 am »
Hi there, I never got your reply as my email alerts weren't working.  Did you figure out any solutions with your DS?  Our problems died down for a while but now back with a vengeance.

Offline <Catherine>

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 149
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10265
  • Location: UK
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 11:03:02 am »
It's all down to the horrid 1-0 :( Things are better here, but only if I keep BT super early, and throw a nap in from time to time when he needs it (generally once a week at the moment).

Where are you at now?
Catherine x








Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 06:06:23 am »
Ds1 still really needs a nap, about 1hr45, even though he's 3.5yo.  He's now started preschool but we are currently reliant on the maid (we live in India) to bring him home on public transport.  She often lets him fall asleep on the bus for five minutes, then when he gets home a) he's already late for nap time and b) he struggles to get to sleep due to the 5 min nap!  Plus I think he wants to spend some time with me as he hasn't seen me all day, where I just want him to fall into bed quickly and hang out together later!  We're going on holiday for a few weeks, but when we get back I'm hoping that I'll have DS2 in a better routine do that I can be available more for DS1, and that I'll be able to collect him myself from school and keep him awake.

Still though I wonder if I'll still have problems for a couple of reasons.  He's started saying he's scared and wants the door open a crack, fine, I'm not going to shut him in there if he's scared, but the extra light from either door or nightlight often delays him falling asleep!  Also, I think DH panders to him a little which encourages the messing, but DH seems to be in denial over this.  I can't figure out a way around either of these.

One thing did occur to me, I've noticed that if we have a visitor after DS's bedtime, he goes quiet really quick, I think he's listening to see what's going on, and then he falls asleep easily.  So it got me thinking maybe some soft lullabies in the room might help to make him feel safer, calm and give him something to focus on rather than monsters or knocking on the door every five minutes!  I've seen other people mention playing lullabies at bedtime, but for younger kids, and also I'm worried about creating a dependency on them.  Any ideas?

Offline <Catherine>

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 149
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10265
  • Location: UK
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 09:03:35 am »
How about audio books? I did consider that for us when we were having messing about at BT, but it didnt become a big enough issue for us, routine tweaks sorted it. So, I have no experience but possibly worth a try?

Are you sure he's not OT at BT? We tend to get upset/crying/frustration at BT if DS is OT, whereas UT tends to give us games/call backs/messing around etc. What time does he wake in the mornings and what time is BT? It may be that BT needs to be earlier, especially on the days he's only having a few minutes nap on the bus.
Catherine x








Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 16:50:57 pm »
Yes I'm sure he's OT a lot. He's waking in the evenings and during the night at least once, which is usually a sign of OT with him.  He wakes around 6.30-6.45, should nap around 1, but in practice it's usually somewhere between 1.45-2.15, I get him up around 3.30-4, otherwise it affects night time sleep, then bedtime is usually 8, (although i dont think he really sleeps till closer to 9) but I bring it forward to 7 if he's slept an hour or less, and frequently on those nights he passes out straight away.

I'm finding it hard to figure out his exact timings now as for some time now he's been in the habit of being really quiet when going to sleep, so I'm not sure exactly when he's going to sleep, even with the monitor on, and now we're in India it's really hard to hear over the noise of the fans which are on constantly!  Not to mention the fact that now I have DS2 I don't spend all my time sitting around listening to DS1's monitor!

Offline <Catherine>

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 149
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10265
  • Location: UK
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 18:57:34 pm »
but in practice it's usually somewhere between 1.45-2.15
Can you bring this forward? If the afternoon A is increased then it may mean he falls asleep quicker at BT and get a longer night.
Catherine x








Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 02:47:41 am »
This is the problem, my hands are tied at the moment as I'm sleep training DS2, until he's sleeping well enough to take that morning nap on his own I can't leave the house to go collect DS1.  The maid can't get Ds1 home any quicker so I'll have to do it myself.  The complications of living in India!

Offline Truly Blessed

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 125
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7747
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 07:09:22 am »
Hello Honey,

I wanted to chip in with some (HUGS) and sympathy. It is as the ladies say the dreaded 1-0. The problem is that even though your little fella is probably long term OT, I, and many others have found that it takes 2nd place to short term UT. So in other words, even if he is shattered unless he has had long enough awake since his nap he will create all kinds of shenanigans at BT. The only way to counteract this is to have him nap as early in the day as possible. Our little man is 2.5 and we are going through the 1-0 at the moment and have experienced BT struggles big time. Sam needs at least 6 hours 15/6 hours 30 mins after his nap to BT. It doesn't make much difference whether he has had a 30 min or an hour nap how he goes over so we have stuck with a 1 hour nap capped consistently. He is currently doing this:

WU 7 am (I wake him)

Nap 12.30/12.45 to 1.30/1.45 capped. I get him down asap.

BT PD for WD at 7.45 to hopefully be asleep by 8.00/8.15.

This is the first thing that has worked for us in months and the key is that with the shorter night of no more than 11 hours usually 10.45 mins he will go down earlier for the nap which in turn can keep BT reasonable. I HATE the late bed times, as I am done by 7.30 and want my time with DH  ;) and I don't feel guilty saying it any more LOL.

I see that your hands are tied whilst sleep training DS2 but I hope this can help you when that is all done and at lest help you to understand where he is coming from because for me the frustration when Sam was going bananas at BT made me want to pull my own head off!!!  ::)

(HUGS) to you!

Vicki.x.



Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 10:12:02 am »
Yes it may well be the start of 1-0.  I have noticed over the last 6 months that his nap has moved earlier, from 1.45 to 1.00, but right now I feel like there's nothing I can do about the whole thing.  Fingers crossed I can get Ds2 sorted out quickly.

Offline delancepants

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Posts: 483
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 05:43:03 am »
Hi there just thought I'd post back with some good news.  I managed to find a better transport solution to get DS1 home from school and now he's back to naps, hooray!  In hindsight I'm not sure it even is 1-0 yet, but maybe just OT.  He's now back to the same routine he's had for the last year ish, a nap of 1h45 and night of 10-10h30.  He's doing so much better, back to his old sweet self.  I've also started lying in with him for a while after we turn the lights out as I think he just misses me a lot while he's at school.  He still makes a lot of requests at bedtime though.  He's also very active at bedtime, it's really hard to get him to lie down and be still.  I've come to the conclusion that maybe he needs a longer wind down routine (currently I give him about 10-15 mins getting reafy for bed and then 15mins in the bedroom) but it's very hard to commit to it right now as DS2 still needs me a lot in the evening.  But overall things are much much better, it's just a case of fine tuning at this point, so thanks for your support when I really needed it!

Offline Truly Blessed

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 125
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 7747
  • Location:
Re: Messing about then crying at bedtime
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 07:46:16 am »
Ah thanks for getting back Hun, I am so happy it's with good news. I know it is so much harder when there are 2 LO's to consider. Keep it up, you're obviously doing a great job  ;)

x.