Author Topic: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate  (Read 1333 times)

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Offline Mamaria

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Hey everyone! It's a pity that I read BW too late.  So what we have now: 07 wake up, 07-0900 activity, 0900 eat 150 ml of formula (5oz), some activity,  1000-1200 sleep*, some activity time, 1300 eat 5 oz, 1330-1430 activity. 1430-1600 sleep, activity, 1700 eat, little activity and 1800-1900 sleep. 1900-2000 activity, 2000-2100 bath and getting ready to sleep. 21.00 he eats buckwheat, for now 3 oz ( that is recommended start for solids from where I live) and 4oz of formula. Then I hold him with little rocking till he falls asleep and then put him in the crib. Afterwards he wakes up almost every hour to eat, he eats 4 oz at 01 and 04 and just a little in between and starting from 5 I put him in my bed and bread feed him while sleeping cause I'm so tired. I would Really aprecciate advice and recommendations from more experienced moms in the community ;)) ps he sleep during the day only 30 min, so now I put him in the stroller and rock it when he wakes up so in this way he sleeps much longer. Pps I breast feed him before almost each meal but a'm almost out of milk evidently ;((. We have so many issues so I don't even know where to begin

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 18:40:37 pm »
Ok, yes, there is a lot going on. But lets try and start from somewhere :)
I often found that when there were a few things going on at the same time I try and make a priority list of what I want to tackle fist. I think that could be helpful for you as well. Your LO is obviously used to things happening a certain way and of you are going to change all at once then you might end up with more problems.
The first thing that "shouts" to me is that his BT is way way too late. If his WU is at 7 then you should aim for a 12h day - 12h night, so 19 would become your BT.
You were saying that he is waking up every hour after BT to feed, but I am not sure that he is hungry, I think he is OT from the day (30min naps would indicate OT and late BT). Frequent waking at the first half of the night for most babies will be a sign for us of OT.
His A time right now is 3h in the morning and I think it's too much for him, especially as he is not getting enough sleep at night. Most babies the same age are doing around 2.5h A time. So first thing I'd cut the A and see if there are any changes and also move the BT backwards.
Another things that I was thinking is that for BF babies solids are harder to digest then FF fed babies. It is recommended to give solids in the morning time and not before BT. You could try that as well and see if there is a change.

So I see it that one side of the "problem" is the length of the routine and the other problem is props, am I right? I think on that you would also need to work separatly on the night feeds and the day feeds. Are day feeds also a problem or we are only looking at the night feeds?
I would say that at his age and the fact that he is BF 1 or even 2 NF would still be ok. What you can do is decide with yourself what times at night are you feeding (you'd need to be realistic there how long you think he can go without feeding) and if he wakes up before the time of the feed then you are going to try and settle him in a different way. Don't cave in. He will be hungry in the first night and it's going to be a tough night, I am not going to lie to you, but you will see that if you are using pat/shh, not leaving him to cry on his own but always there for him then after a few nights your night will be better.
5.5m is the best time to start pat/shh. This is also the time we started and it worked a charm for us. Do you have Tracey's books? There is a lot of info there about pat/shh. This is what I found the most helpful when we were going through sleep training: Sleep interviews with Tracy
I hope this all gives you a place to start. Let me know if you have more questions or concerns or I wasn't clear enough about something.

p.s: how funny. I looked at your location :) A month ago I was living 30min for Tel Aviv (am an Israeli) and moved to Germany, 1.5h south of Frankfurt. Gotta laugh of how small this world is.
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Offline Mamaria

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 19:48:27 pm »
Hi!im really impressed with such deep and detailed respond! Thanks a lot! Yep We have a lot in common ;) I'm from moscow, spent s lot of time in Israel and we even got married there and my husband grew up in Frankfurt, so we come visit his parents a lot. Actually we've been here for the last two months and planning to leave soon back to moscow.
 I have Tracy's book and I even started to implement easy pretty early once but Michael was always sleeping after feeds impossible to wake upso I stuck to the 3- and then 4-hour cycle but in the wrong order. Just now he started being awake after feed so I decided it is time to be proactive :)
So main problem for me now is his NW. He used to sleep  3-4,5 hours withh 2-3 feeds till he was 3 months old, then he slept for 6 hours couple nights and then this hell started.. So I don't think it is discomfort (colics or teething or smith else) related. Also re the solids - we just started 1,5 weeks ago during the day and our pediatrician advised to move this feed to the bedtime as he thought it will get more calories before night. As we just started it shouldn't be the cause. and he is mostly FF I BF just for him to get at least something for the health reasons and for us to feel the connection, but no matter how I tried I have very little milk so we can consider him FF with some little bonus of BF :))
Day feeds are okay. He keeps 4 hour intervals pretty well generally only sometimes 3 or 3,5 usually after BF or if he didn't take full feed before for some reason.
Here in Frankfurt we have house with garden so during the day he sleeps only outside and he sleeps much more than back home - fresh air I think etc so here is what we had today
Last eve: bedtime at 2000, 22  woke up and ate 4 oz
01 am E 5oz
Then woke up every hour I gave paci
0330 E 5 oz
04 woke up I gave paci and moved him to my bed as I was dying already
05, 06  E breast feed
0730 woke up
0730-09 A
09 E 5 oz
O930-11 S
1100-1300 A
1300 E BF+ 4 oz
1330-1430 S
1430-1630 A
1630 E BF+5 oz
1700-1750 S
1800 E 3 oz (tried to give him extra food during the day in he seemed hungry)
1800-2000 A - including bath, getting dressed etc
2000-2030 - E buckwheat 4 oz, BF, 4 oz of formula
And then he was asleep at 2110
 
What I aim for first is to get rid of this crazy NW - and I have no idea why he has been waking up like this since he was 3 months old with few nights only waking up at 01 and 05 to eat. And as he slept 5-6 hours stretches before he seems to be capable of it... What do I do with it?
Tomorrow I want to try to feed him when he wakes up  in the morning to change the order of things... And will try to put him to sleep earlier. As for the props and the means I use to put him to sleep or nap - as feeding or rocking in the stroller or holding and 5 min rocking before night sleep - it may be the 2nd step probably after fixing the routine and NW, right?
Thank u again for ur advice and efforts!

Offline Mamaria

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 06:01:13 am »
Soooo we woke up apat 2320 and ate 5 oz, then at 0140 and nothing worked so he ate 3 oz and half an hour later woke up to finish the bottle and ate 2 oz. then he woke up several times and at 330 he ate 4 oz and at 5 and 6 I breastfed him. Sooooo at 7 he didn't take any food as I planned .((,
And he keeps waking up in the bad mood, unhappy and fussy and before all these NW he was the happiest boy in the mornings :(((
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 06:48:18 am by Mamaria »

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 11:02:29 am »
Are you sure there is no discomfort? No Reflux?

Does he empty the bottle at the first NF? If he does then I think he might be ready for a little bit more in the bottle.

Your stretch before BT is VERY long. You had 3:20h A before BT. I would try and give not more than 2-2.5h before BT, it's the end of the day and he is tired.

I think that is happening to you is that he got used to be fed at night, he doesn't know how to fall back to sleep without the feeding. Do you agree with that?
There is really no other way to stop with the NW or at least reduce then other than sleep training (like I mentioned before set times for feeds and whatever other waking you resettle with pat/shh). Of course it's hard work but you anyway don't get any proper sleep right now, right? You will have a few rough nights but after that I believe he will sleep better at night.

If this sounds too scary there is another thing you could do.
How much is he taking right now in his NF at each bottle?
Lets assume for a moment that he is taking 4oz for each feed. What you do is you reduce it to 3oz and stick to that for three nights and after three nights you reduce it to 2oz and so on, till you are left with a bottle of water with a tiny bit of powder just for the taste, really. After that you stop giving the bottle at all and just use pat/shh for settling.
This is a way to eliminate ALL NF which I am not sure he is ready for, but you know him best and can judge .

I know it's confusing because I just wrote to you that he might be ready for some more ozs in her bottle but if you use the second menthod I suggested you simply shift the calories to day time.
HTH.
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Offline Mamaria

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 12:53:23 pm »
We checked for reflux - he doesn't have it. I agree that he is used to be fed at night., i think he had GS around 3 months and just decided it is how it works at nights since.
Yep he empties his bottle almost every time but I can't give him more during the day - he refuses and if I insist he burps the extra portion at once. So I can't give him extra feed or add more to his usual feed.
Now he takes 4-5 oz each time.
I'll try the 2nd method u offered. Just to clarify I give him 3 oz instead of 4 for dream feed too? And do I add extra oz of water or not?
Thank u a lot!

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: Introducing easy to 5,5 months old sleepless baby - I'm really desperate
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 06:13:44 am »
Dream feed you leave for now as a full feed so whatever he takes in the morning. And no, you don't add water till you are in the last oz and then you'd give 1oz of milk for three nights and then 1oz of water with a little powder and then nada.
Once you start you *would* need to add more to the day bottles because he will stop getting those calories at night, but anyway, let him be the lead on that.
It sounds like he swapped day feeds with night feeds and is now taking a significant amount of calories during the night. If you reduce the bottles then he will slowly take more calories during the day.
Good luck!
My journey of making 1000 goodies using unrefined sugar: http://1000crumbs.com/