Author Topic: 2.5yr old taking forever to go to sleep but not ready to drop the nap - Help!  (Read 2741 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JuJuLuv

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 72
  • Location:
My DS is 2.5 yrs old (as of last Thursday) and my DH and I feel like we need to do some adjusting but just not exactly sure what to do. My DS has been on EASY pretty much from the get go. This is more or less what his daily routine looks like:

Wakes: 7:15-7:45am
Naps: 12:45/1 – 2:30/2:45 (I typically wake him from his naps)
Bedtime Routine: Start bath around 7:30 and we attempt to leave his room by 8

Sounds great but things are getting a bit wonky. I had a little girl 8.5 weeks ago and we definitely have seen some sleep regression with her arrival. We had some glimpses of similar behavior beforehand, but much more since she’s been in the world. He would wake at odd hrs (usually after midnight) and be up from anywhere from 1-4 hours and did not want to be alone. And he would be wide awake, wanting the lights on, to be held, to read books, etc. We instituted a reward calendar on his wall and he gets a sticker every night he sleeps through and so far it seems to be producing some good results – 9 nights in row and counting (fingers crossed). There have been some early mornings (around 5am) where I’ll check the monitor after feeding my DD and he’s stirring or in some instances has sat up, maybe called out and then resettled and eventually (after an hour or so) goes back to sleep and then I wake him by 8am no matter what.

Bedtime is the worst. The poor kid is in his bed by 7:45/8 but doesn’t actually get to sleep until 8:45 on a good night and close to 10 on a bad night. This has been going on for a few months (as long as I can remember at this point) and we feel like we’re doing some bad parenting b/c how horrible to be so little and up by yourself in the dark for so long waiting to fall asleep. And after a certain amount of time in there, he doesn’t want to be by himself so he tries everything he can think of to have us in there with him – I want water, I want a hug, I want up, just sit in the chair for a minute, etc. He’s getting quite good at his manipulation techniques, lol. And we invariably always eventually respond or go in – generally multiple times. We’ve talked about drawing a hard line and ignoring it (as he’s smart enough to know we’ll eventually cave in) but he does get all amped up and cries at times. He is a very active little guy and we’ve battled sleep issues from the get go so we figured it’s just taking him longer and longer to turn off the world and go to sleep. I know anytime after 2, kids can start to drop the nap all together. But I don’t think he’s ready for that yet.

We have had some nap refusals here and there but he’s a total train wreck without a nap. And if he doesn't get a nap, we start the bedtime routine around 6:30 and he's out like a light but I can almost guarantee a night wake. We’ve played with naps a bit as far as trying to put him down earlier and capping them at an 1.5hrs – he used to do 2hrs and I would wake him then as well. If he has no nap, he’s a mess come dinner time and then totally uncooperative with bath and the bedtime routine. Even with a nap, he’s been fighting the bedtime routine (which he’s had since 4 weeks old) so I think he’s probably dreading the 1-2 hr awake stent in the dark. He also goes down for a nap really well – we do a wind down, read a few books, I sing some songs and he’s typically asleep within 15-20 mins (from the time we start). Even with bringing the naps in time wise and capping them, I feel like he’s a bit more difficult and cranky come night time.

So, my expert mamas, what to do?

Do we keep the nap and just make it even shorter, like an hour and then bring the bedtime in or keep it as is and see if there is a change? It can’t be “normal” for kids to consistently take 1-2 hours to go to sleep at night, can it? 

Any and all advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
Daneen

Offline *Becky*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 255
  • Posts: 19155
  • Location: Sussex, England
I would cap the nap....1.45 is a pretty long nap for a 2.5 year old IMO. How about trying 1 hour and seeing how that goes?
So if he naps 1-2pm then I would try and have him in bed for about 7pm as a start and see...




Henry James and Martha Rose - my spirited pair!

Offline clairebear79

  • Claire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 49
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3470
  • My grown up boy! 12 months old
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Def worth a try at this age. 

My only other suggestion, rather than capping, would be to increase his A time in the morning.  I've found with my DS (2.1) that if he doesn't get enough A time in the morning before his nap (at least 6hrs), then he's not tired enough to fall asleep at bedtime & we get far more messing around.  So we do this:

Up: 7am          (occasionally up at 6.30 but usually around 7am)
Nap: 1-3/3.30 (He's in bed at 12.50pm.  Lately he sleeps more like 1.15-3.15pm & he wakes naturally, I will wake at 3.30 though or it affects BT)
Bed: 8pm        (he is in bed by 7.50pm & asleep anywhere from 8-8.30 but usually around 8.10pm)

If DS ever sleeps in til 8am + then we do a no nap day & early bedtime at 7pm.

If you feel this is worth a try, you could gradually wake him earlier in the mornings by 10 or 15 mins every few days (or if your clocks are going back in the next few weeks this will do it for you in one go!).  If you can get him waking up at 7am and you keep his nap at 1pm, you may find he's more ready for bed by 8/8.30pm.  Of course if this doesn't help at all & BT is still ridiculous, then I would go down the route of capping the nap shorter.

Offline JuJuLuv

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 72
  • Location:
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

My update…

Last night we had a night wake at 3:40am and my DH went in to comfort him, got him some warm milk and was able to leave his room and come back to bed by 4am. When I checked the monitor at 4:40, he was asleep. That being said, I had to wake him at 8am this morning. I put him down for his nap at 12:40 without any issue and he was out by 1pm. I promptly woke him at 2pm – and he was definitely  still pretty tired. This afternoon was a bit challenging as he was more sensitive and crabby but I was hoping it was worth it and we would have good BT results. It’s now 8:30pm, he’s been in his room with the lights off (and his twilight turtle on) since about 7:15-7:20  and he appears wide awake. For a little bit we thought he might be settling but then shortly after about 20 or so minutes, he started in with the whining, calling out for us, wanting up, etc. We feel so bad for the little guy. So I went in for a bit and laid on the ground and sang a few songs, left his room and a few minutes later, same pattern begins and now my DH is in there and apparently not honoring the “no pick up out of bed rule” (ha, I just check the monitor).  I’m concerned with his staying power and the pattern we’ve been on, he won’t be asleep between 9-10pm. And of course, I’m anxious about a possible and probably night wake b/c he had a shortened nap with no change at BT. I know things can’t change overnight so maybe I stick to this for a week and see how it goes.

As for the suggestion of starting his day earlier, that would be a tough one. We all start our day when he wakes and mornings aren’t particularly our favorite, so 7:15-7:30 is early for us. Also, with my 9 week old daughter, she feeds around 4:30-5 (and sometimes as late as 6) and goes right back to sleep (thankfully)  so it’s already tough only having 1-1.5 hrs sleep before my DS is awake. Oh, the joys of parenthood  However, you bring up an interesting point about daylight savings time – totally forgot that was coming up so perhaps we’ll stick with capping the nap for a bit and if that isn’t yielding good results, make the switch to earlier days (but that’s not until beginning of November).

I’m so anxious he will have a night wake tonight or he’ll be up until 10 and end up in some OT cycle but it is what it is and it’s no good wasting energy fretting over it. But, here I am all wound up over something I can’t control  :( I just want my little guy to be rested and not to have be in a dark room by himself every night for an hour or 2 before he drops off. And of course, we don’t want the fall out of changing up his schedule like night wakes as we’re trying to cater to our new DD but once again what can you do except try your best to provide them the structure/routine they need and rest is what it is.

Sorry for carrying on – just having a tough night I suppose as my DD is having a hard time settling as well (she had her first shots today – ick!)

Thanks again and I’ll keep you posted…
Daneen

Offline JuJuLuv

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 72
  • Location:
So luckily no night wake like I thought might happen as he didn’t actually drop off until about 9:30-9:45. The next AM, he was stirring at 7:30am but we actually went in and made sure he was awake. He was then plenty ready for his nap at 1. Started the process at about 12:40 and left his room by 1:05 and he was asleep when I left. I promptly woke him at 2:05 – poor guy was clearly still super tired. We powered through the afternoon, started BT process at 7 and we left his room by about 7:35pm. He was whiny pretty much from the get go when we left his room but I figured it was because he was tired, he eventually settled and was asleep by 8:25. Woohoo! Not great, but definitely an improvement from the typical 9:15-9:30 drop off.

No night wake last night (or should I say this AM) which was great. We actually had to go in this AM and wake him at 7:35am. He napped from 1-2pm. We started BT routine about 7 and out of his room by 7:30. He self-entertained for about an hour and then got upset and wanted me to sit in the chair in his room. I did so with my back to him and he continued to try to engage me and I just ignored him. He carried on playing and seems so jacked up. I have no clue where this kid is getting all this energy. I was in there for about 30 mins, gave him a kiss and told him I was tired and going to bed and left at 9. He’s still awake :( It’s 9:15pm now and he’s just now quiet – awake and staring at the ceiling. Hopefully he’ll fall asleep in the next 10-15 mins. But this is pretty much what he was doing before with a 1.5- 1.75 hr nap that sometimes happened later than 1.

Do I just continue to stick with the new 1-2pm nap with a 7:30AM wake and BT routine at 7 for a week and see if it shakes out and we see consistent improvement? Or do I attempt to tweak now? I fear if we start BT any earlier, he’ll be awake and playing around for 3 hrs instead of 2. But then again maybe I'm missing the sweet spot? An earlier wake probably isn't realistic. So I can mess with the nap a bit more but can't foresee no nap as he's zonkered and ready for a nap by 12:30/12:45.

Thoughts?

Offline clairebear79

  • Claire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 49
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3470
  • My grown up boy! 12 months old
  • Location: Lincolnshire
I'd probably stick with it a bit longer really.  TBH though, I found with my DS, if I cap his nap at just 1hr he is a complete wreck, its not enough to sustain him through the day, esp not after 6hrs awake in the morning.  Might be worth checking out this thread for support from other ladies going through the 1-0:

Support for dropping the nap part 7......

I think a few of them do 1hr capped naps, but they do them as early as they possibly can get their LO's down in the day, so as to give them a really long A time to bed.  Maybe at this age it would suit your DS better than pushing the nap later uncapped.

Offline *Becky*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 255
  • Posts: 19155
  • Location: Sussex, England
I agree to stick with it for a little longer xx




Henry James and Martha Rose - my spirited pair!

Offline JuJuLuv

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 72
  • Location:
Update…

He did end up finally falling asleep around 9:30ish. He slept through the night and we woke him at 7:35, or perhaps he was already stirring, I can’t remember…at any rate, I started the nap time routine right around 12:40 and he wasn’t dropping off as he usually does and I just kept singing some songs hoping he would. Eventually my DD needed me in her room so I told him I needed to tend to some things. I think he was very relaxed otherwise he would’ve put up a fight for me to stay. I left him in there for an hour and he never fell asleep. He was pretty quiet though so I figured that was what it was going to be that day. I was concerned he’d fall asleep 15 mins before he was supposed to get up. We powered through the afternoon, ate dinner early, he was totally anti a bath so we skipped it and he was asleep by 6:35/6:40pm which is totally unheard of. The greatest part? He slept through the night! I was completely surprised. He woke up right around 7am and wanted us to be up too. He usually wakes and lays quietly for a bit until we come and get him so perhaps he woke up prior to 7 but at any rate, he didn’t wake us until then.

He went down pretty easily for his nap today – we started a little earlier than usual. He was out by 12:45 so I promptly woke him at 1:45. We had some friends over for dinner and they have 2 little ones and we weren’t able to start our routine until 7:30pm. It’s now 9:05 and he seems wise awake and calling out for us periodically (in-between songs and pretend play). I’m thinking part of this is just being amped up from having lots of stimuli at the end of the day. Hopefully he’ll fall asleep soon….
I think I will stick to the capped 1 hour nap around 12:30/1 and see how things go for a week or two.

Thanks for the input. I’ll let you know how it goes…
Daneen

Offline *Becky*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 255
  • Posts: 19155
  • Location: Sussex, England
yes keep us posted....it sounds like some no nap days might be needed x




Henry James and Martha Rose - my spirited pair!

Offline clairebear79

  • Claire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 49
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3470
  • My grown up boy! 12 months old
  • Location: Lincolnshire
.it sounds like some no nap days might be needed x
Agree.  I think the fact he surprised you & handled it just fine shows he is ready.x

Offline barbaraz78

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 68
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3468
  • In the fall...
  • Location: Italy
My ds is 2.75 yo and he now still has naps between 1 h and 1.30 h but, since a couple of months ago, he started to refuse naps randomly and now he doesn't nap more and less once a week. That day he is soo tired in the evening, but we can't do sebt for work reasons. However, he seems to need some day without naps. I leave the choice to him to nap or not. I would probably not wake him up in the morning if I don't need it, and if he wakes late he could probably be ready for a no nap day.
Also remember that at this age the difficult to drop off at bt is often developmental, so I would do as much as I can for encouraging independent sleeping: so, when he calls you I would try speaking to him from the door and would enter in the room only if I really need and, then, I would leave as soon as he is calm. So, if you see that the shorter nap doesn't make difference in bt after a week, I would go back to 1.5 h nap, to prevent ot from short nights.
Barbara


Offline JuJuLuv

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 72
  • Location:
Update….here are the past 3 days…talk about wonky, wondering if we’re in or entering an OT cycle…

Mon 10/15 He woke at 6am and called out but not really in need of us until 7am. He went down for a nap at 12:45 and I woke him at 1:45. We started his BT after dinner at 6:30ish. My DH was out of his room by 7:15. He did lots of complaining from the get go (“daddy, I want up” a million times) which was an indicator to me that he was tired and then quieted down and was asleep by 8:45. I don’t believe we went in at all to him during his whining/complaining.

Tues 10/16 We had an EW at 4ish until 5:25am. We went in briefly to calm him, gave him a little warm milk and then right back into the crib. We were able to leave his room and crawl back into bed. I only know he was back asleep around 5:25am b/c I woke for my DD around 5:25 and he was dozing back off. I woke him at 7:55. He napped from 12:45-1:55pm. We did BT routine at 6:45ish. We were out of his room by 7:30. He had pretty limited complaints as daddy told him we weren’t going to do that again tonight. We had to reaffirm a few times from the room next door but didn’t go in. He was asleep by 8:35pm.

Wed 10/17 NW/ EW from 3:30am-5:30am. We did the same with going in briefly and giving some warm milk and leaving. Poor kid was up for 2 hours by himself awake. He called out a few times but not badly and we didn’t have to go back in. I decided to let him wake up on his own and he did so at 8:10am. I attempted the nap routine at 12:40 and he laid in his crib from about 1-2pm but never fell asleep. We powered through the afternoon and shortly after dinner we started the BT routine around 6:30. He was asleep by 7pm.

Seems with the no nap days, he’s passed out by around 7. This is fabulous as there is no drama, he falls asleep quickly and we have a bit of our evenings back  (assuming DD cooperates too) but not sure if it will lead to consistent EW/NW. I also really value the time with my DD or to myself (if she happens to be asleep too) during the day. I will have a really hard time letting that go. I figure I’ll continue to provide the space for him to take a nap and whether he takes it or not is his choice and see how that goes.

I’m hopeful we won’t have a NW or EW but the past few days would say differently. Though, the last time he skipped his nap and was out early, he slept all the way through. He’s also been more challenging and a bit of a grump since capping the nap but I guess that should be expected when we’re tampering with his normal routine. He also could be more so this way b/c he’s 2.5yrs old and it’s developmental – terrible twos, right? Lol. I figure we’ll carry on a few more days and see how things go. With all the EW and NW and skipping naps I’m concerned he’s moving into an OT cycle.  If it doesn’t start looking better after a week, perhaps we go back to a longer nap but then I’m not entirely sure what to do about the super long extended drama filled BTs…and all this tweaking just in time for my all time favorite day light savings…argh…

To be continued…

Offline clairebear79

  • Claire
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 49
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 3470
  • My grown up boy! 12 months old
  • Location: Lincolnshire
Oh ((hugs)) this stage is so hard.  My DS was foul with a capped nap too, so I have to allow a decent one or the days are a misery for us all.  Perhaps it may work better for you both if you do as Barbara suggests & give him a nap if he needs it & quiet time if he doesn't?  We do something similar (though DS being a little younger 2yrs 2 months still naps most of the time) but if he wakes post 7.30/8am we power on through without a nap (& do early bedtime instead), if he's up earlier he gets one.  I always set 3.30pm as my cut off time, so whatever time he goes down for his nap, he has to be up by 3.30 latest, or he doesn't settle at 8pm BT.

My friend IRL is also doing naps some days & no nap on others.  If her DS has naps for any more than 3 consecutive days he is up til 9/9.30pm faffing around (& he only naps for 1hr in the day) but she is finding that if he has a no nap day every 3-4 days, then on the days he does nap, he can have a wee bit longer, without it having such an impact on BT.