EASY or sleep issue for a 3week old

[confusedmummy]

thanks for support ladies. She is now on domperidone, and ranitidine and back on Gaviscon for her reflux. Its only been a couple of days but there is an improvement although she still cries when put down for sleep and I guess if she is OT or OS, which feels like all the time.

I'm not sure now if she is still in pain or if she is just used to all the apop'ing and now expects it? She is 6 weeks tomorrow and I really want to A. Get her on a Easy routine, but also B. Get her to sleep in her bed at naps and possibly a little more independently than she is now.

At the moment after waking in the morning usually around 5/6 her sleep is all over the place. Because its so hard to get her to sleep she is usually awake for over 2hrs then it is such a struggle. She seems to be eating constantly but actually isn't taking much in one sitting so spreads it out over a couple of hours, which usually means she eats right before sleep (she sucks and smacks her lips before her BT sleep). I do shh/pat but as soon as she is laid down she starts crying again, she is a very fidgety, loud, grunty baby even when swaddled.

So how can I gradually get a routine from practically nothing, how can I get her to eat more in one sitting so she isn't snacking, and how can I get her to sleep independently. Sorry for all the questions, you'd think with the second I would know, but I didn't start this early with DS and it was a nightmare. TIA x

[enna77]

Hopefully the meds will start to sort out her feeding/snacking although at 7 weeks we just had a big GS day and she was feeding all day & nite so just remember about Growth spurts.  Re sleeping independently have you tried putting her down earlier say after 40 or 45 mins? I was sometimes putting my DD back after only half an hour. Although they are older and should be able to handle more if you have a build up of OT they sometimes need to catch up.

Its interesting as I was told to try and push my A times by our maternity advisor but if I even do an hour I need to settle her and then she might only do a 45 min nap. If I put her back in bed more around the 45 min mark she will often settle herself and sleep longer. If your DD responds to sh/pat have you tried that in the crib? Have you tried the white noise yet? it honestly helps even if you have a fan going for the noise or you can download something onto your phone or IPOD.

Hugs I know its hard, we're still struggling at times as well, I just keep telling myself it will get better! Remember reflux is a major in terms of sleep, you can get proper support over on those boards but I know reflux mamas will pretty much do whatever works just to get them to sleep - swings, seats, car seats, carriers whatever gets them comfortable.
 

[Fiver]

reflux mamas will pretty much do whatever works just to get them to sleep - swings, seats, car seats, carriers whatever gets them comfortable.

Totally agree.  Sleep training is either not easy, at best, or impossible, at worst, while reflux is uncontrolled.

[confusedmummy]

Tonight she has screamed for over 2hrs. I was so close to taking her to a and e. I'm not sure the meds are working, or if she has reflux at all. I did stop the Gaviscon today as her poops were becoming solid again so maybe that's why she was screaming tonight. I am just at a loss

[enna77]

Big Hugs have you posted on the Reflux, crying boards?

[Fiver]

*hugs*  If she's also quite spirited/touchy and prone to OT, it can be even more tough.  Agree with Enna about the Colic, Reflux, & Crying board

[confusedmummy]

Thanks ladies. I am totally at wits end. As I write this I am rocking her moses with my foot, she has now been awake for 3hrs and is totally and utterly shattered.

the situation where we at now is that I think her crying is due to OT and the inability to put her self to sleep. She cries in the eve but is not so bad since I have changed bottles, and started doing massage/exercises with her to get her wind out. She cries during the day still but it seems only when either hungry, bored or tired.

She currently has oral thrush which I think is the cause of her poor eating, and it means that 45mins to an hour after waking she has hardly had any milk, which either leads to her staying awake longer and feeding in small bits throughout or feeding to sleep, the one apop I didn't want to do.
She is on meds and hopefully once cleared she will feed better I just hope she doesn't get used to it.

I have stopped all reflux medicine and she is actually no worse, possibly better than when on it, so I think maybe the thrush was the problem (sore mouth, excessive saliva etc) and not silent reflux.

I do think now the crying is because she either cannot get to sleep herself or because I am not doing what I have done before to help her. It is very much hit and miss as to what AP works to get her to sleep, today even rocking for over an hour hasn't worked whereas it would normally.

Basically I think I need to bite the bullet and start some kind of independent sleep training even though she is only 7 weeks, I don't think she is in pain anymore when crying just tired. The problem is I'm not sure where to start and how at this age. I have tried putting her down at first yawn (with the way her sleep is can be after 20 mins) after 45mins, 1hr etc but none seem to be right. She does not really like shush/pat it seems to wind her up more and I don't know what else to try. I swaddle but if tired it makes her angry, she also fusses and fidgets so much she escapes, which results in a lot of picking up and putting down (to re swaddle) that it also makes her angry. If I can get her routine back on track inc the feeding which since these meds has improved then I think getting her to sleep would be easier but any advice on how and where to start would be so greatly appreciated x

[*Ali*]

It was around this age I moved to a zip up swaddle (Woombie) with DS2 because he was breaking out of the miracle blanket and Velcro wrap we had. He stayed in that until 8mo. I can highly recommend it. What about if you swaddle at the start of the wind down so she isn't too tired yet.

Have you tried shh pat up over your shoulder? Then lying her down once asleep/almost asleep and continuing? Some mums have to vary it a little and their LOs prefer a rub to a pat or quiet whispering to the shush for example. You may have to play around with variations to see what she responds better to.

Oral thrush hurts so she may be in pain from that right now. When I had it it stung like acid. Personally I wouldn't worry about feeding to sleep while she is sick. I fed and/or held my DS1 to sleep until he was 3.5mo and it was easy to sleep train him after that so it doesn't have to be an awful prop that is impossible to get rid of. You still have plenty of time until it is ingrained in one so young.

[confusedmummy]

Thanks Ali, I'm hoping the meds will start to work soon, its just hard because she is eating little and often, so usually 10mins after meds she will cry for more food, well at least I guess that's what it is I give her a Bottle and she takes it, but I guess some meds is better than no meds.

I have a zip up swaddle pod but she can get her hands out the top, and its just so stretchy she can still squirm. I'll try it again, but maybe just using the blanket I'll try to swaddle before she gets OT, its just hard to know the right time to start WD. What would you suggest time wise to start during day, and also as I am pretty much AP'ing at each nap, usually downstairs where I can keep an eye on DS, what can I do to wind her down? Maybe I will have to start taking her upstairs, its just hard with two of them esp as it can take so long and DS is not so great at occupying himself for long periods :-(

She seems to cry so much I just don't know why anymore. She doesn't like to be held or put down, she absolutely hates being put in her car seat. I think its just OT coupled with OS so I just need to get the window for naps right and get her to actually go to sleep and stay asleep x

[*Ali*]

Here is a link to Tracy's 4-S Ritual that she recommended as a wind down for young babies. What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)

How old is your DS? Would he play in his room with some bricks or a book? Here are some other ideas on what to do with an older LO while putting baby down for a nap. Ideas for how to sleep train and deal with naps with #2

I would start wind down about 20mins before you want her asleep. so assuming her A time is 45-60mins that may mean a feed, quick cuddle and nappy change then wind down.

HTH

[confusedmummy]

Thanks for those links, really useful. DS is 3 and in his assertive stage so unfortunately doesn't take directions too well, but three days a week he is at nursery so I can start then.

I have a quick question re shush/pat. I thought it was only if crying but it kind of reads as though you should use all the time in wd even if not crying? Also how do you continue to pat if they are a back sleeper?

Tonight  I had a bit of success, I was on own so I gave DS a bath and put DD in too, she was ok till she got out when she started crying, but managed to get her dressed and give her bottle. Then got DS out of bath and got him dressed and whilst feeding DD rest of bottle read story and got DS to bed. There was some crying, but I coped, then I managed to pretty much put her down after more food and lullabies. Unfortunately she woke after about 20 mins but after more food and a bit of rocking moses ( didn't want to, but it was only gentle) she was asleep, it took another 20mins ish.

So we had no crying fits as such, just short spells, stopped by feeding or bit of rocking and bouncing.

I will try WD routine from tomorrow and fingers x'd it will work x

[enna77]

Well done, sounds like you've had some success. If you do find you have to rock you can try doing it until you see her relaxing or eyes fluttering vs like the hour you mentioned. I sometimes use a hammock & sometimes find when I jig it for too long it actually has the opposite effect, if you can watch them and work with them ie stop if they're looking like they're almost asleep, start up again if they get worked up again it works in more with what they're doing rather than doing it 'at' them IYKWIM. It also helps it become less of a prop because you're using it to relax but not get completely to sleep.

Re shush patting in the crib, I side sleep her to start with with wedges etc so that I can pat her bottom in an upwards motion, I find it easier to get to than her back & seems to work better for us, then once they're asleep you can roll them back on to their back if you want. Likewise with the above if really worked up pat firmly, then decrease pressure once they're getting sleepy.

Don't put yourself under too much pressure though, remember you're transitioning her from lots of APing to sleeping in crib so she might need a bit of help to start with & you can gradually reduce your involvement. Keeping on top of the OT is still a priority we find. Sometimes although she seems to have dropped off if shes been OT I will sit & watch through the jolts & if she gets too worked up will start gently patting again as otherwise when OT if she completely wakes up again we're back to square 1 & then as more time passes more & more OT sets in so it can be worth the time upfront. 

We have major OT/OS issues too to the point where she won't even feed properly, so I'm going to try a longer wynd down with some of these great tips to see if that helps. I agree with Ali the tight swaddle is paramount. My DD starts protesting as soon as I put the swaddle on but it def helps her settle better.

[*Ali*]

Yes at this age you can do the shh pat even if she isn't crying. Here is a goodink with more info. Pat/shush for babies under 3 months old

I patted mine on the front of the nappy over one hip while they laid on their back.

Well done on doing BT solo. It can be so hard I know but it sounds like you did great.