Fighting sleep! Calming an overtired baby?

[MGF]

My three week old fights sleep after his 10pm feed and often stays awake until his next feed at 12/1am. He then ends up being overtired and not settling. He sleeps well between 6pm - 8pm and after his 8pm feed. He doesn't nap well in the day. Any tips on how to calm him to get him to sleep. He hates swaddling and shush shush pat just seems to annoy him!

[jessmum46]

Hi and welcome   Congratulations on your new bundle of joy!! 

First thing to say is he is still so tiny at the moment that I wouldn't be scared at all to calm him with cuddles, rocking, using a swing or whatever seems to work for him best.  It is far too early to worry about creating bad habits at this stage, and even with the best of intentions, most parents find that their newborn has an unsettled OT period in the day.  Those Mummy cuddles are so precious and these early days will be gone before you know it!

There is a lot of useful information here:
Starting EASY - all you need to know and more!

The best way to prevent too much OT is to make sure that A times are an appropriate length and not too overstimulating for LO - and at this age, A time is pretty much feed, nappy change and back to sleep again!  Have a look at Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?" for an idea of how long you can expect your LO to stay awake at different ages.

You say he doesn't nap well - how long are his naps typically?  Does he have any issues with gas/reflux?

[AJK]

Hi there,
I too have a little guy who HATES the shh/pat thing. It just gets him more stimulated and they say that can be the case with a "spirited baby". I found that sucking is so soothing for my little one. He won't take a pacifier yet because he is still pushing it out, but will suck my pinky finger and I honestly only have to let him suck it for a while. I know they say that can become a "prop", but he sleeps without it so I don't think it is, and it works!
I wouldn't be too worried if the shh/pat thing doesn't work as at 4 months they say to do the PU/PD method anyway.
(But I'm totally new to being a mum AND to the baby whisperer thing, so take my advice with a grain of salt... just what works for me)

Good luck
AJK

[jessmum46]

AJK is right in that some babies find the described way of doing shh pat too stimulating. Often you have to experiment a bit to find out what suits your LO best. It may be just the shh or just the pat, stroking cheek, hand on chest - there are lots of variations. PUPD can be used from 4 months but Tracy only meant it to be a last resort after shh pat has been tried consistently without success

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs  honey. My 4 wk old really needs either shh or patting, or both in my arms rather than in the bassinet. As Katherine says, under 6 weeks really you just do what works really, your still learning who they are and they are getting used to being out in the world.

We have relatively good naps but long A times and we have sleep fighting at Bt (after 7pm feed) but for now we just APOP him into deep sleep and PD. if you can work on one nap in the bassinet going down awake at this age your doing well - that's all I'm going for right now

One thing DS loves is the stroking across and above the eyes with a finger. Or gentle back massage while holding him against my chest.

[MGF]

Thanks ladies!

Had another bad night. He went down well after his bath from 8.30-11pm. Then at his 11pm feed he woke and became agitated. He then hardly slept until after his 7.30am feed.

His nap times are generally:

8am to 10.30am
1.30am to 3pm
4pm to 5.30pm
8pm to 10/10.30pm

He feeds on average every 2-3 hours. But from 12am he seems to want feeding every 1-1.5 hours.

We try and put him down for more short naps and reduce activity time but he is just wide awake! He is starting to take a dummy which seems to settle him. He rejected it at first.

HV thinks he has reflux because he is sick a lot and struggles when on his back. We have raised his crib mattress at one end. He is an angel most of the day. Just night times are exhausting! He seems to either want to play or feed! I think he is a night owl. He was always busy in the womb at night time!

[ZacsMumme]

He sounds a bit like T really. I try for short A times and he just doesn't sleep! I can be trying to shh/pat, AP on and off for over an hr
For us reflux is definitely playing a part. He will be settling then regurgitate and wake back up from light sleep.

Have you tried to PD earlier to shorten the A times? - even trying a buggy or car sleep?

Any other reflux symptoms?
Reflux 101 - General reflux information

Come join the BC if you like Re: Newborn - 3 Months: Part 45

Katherine - any other thoughts Hun...I'm kind of in a similar boat to MGF re long As - I 'thnk' things settle around 6 weeks, but the frequent waking after 12 im unsure of?

[jessmum46]

Huge ((hugs)) MGF and Sara - J was so like this in the first few weeks, though I don't *think* reflux was an issue for us. She was just awake ALL the time! 

I used to do the same as Sara - hold, rock, feed until in deep sleep then PD very very carefully! I was often up until 1 or 2am doing that for the first few weeks, but agree that things were probably much better from 6 weeks onwards.

MGF - has your HV discussed the possibility of medication for his reflux with your GP?  The frequent wakings and feeds after midnight sound a lot like discomfort to me

All I can suggest really is to try as much as possible to go with the flow for now and maybe try a sling for naps? The closeness and upright posture might be soothing? Or have you tried propping him on his side to sleep? There are some great tips here too: tips for calming my refluxing LO

More ((hugs)) to you both - here to hold hands even if I can't come up with a magic wand for you xx

[*happy*]

not sure if it would help, but i found that bouncing really settled DD when she was OT & refusing sleep....although, we had to be v specific in how we bounced!!!!we held her close, kind of across our arm iykwim, & bounced v v v gently from our knees, like you're doing a mini-squat!!!major workout when you do it for even 10 mins!!!!bouncing/rocking any other way had no effect on her tears!hugs hun,the first few weeks reallt are tough going.xxx

[ZacsMumme]

Yes agree with Katherine, a wrap/sling works wonders in the early evening or late PM to get a nap before BT in our house! Plus your hands free

Lol happy, this is what DH does to get T to sleep at night

[MGF]

Thank you girls. Nice not to feel alone.  My family are far away so haven't got the help and advice of them at hand. Hubby is a star though. Last night we propped him on his side for all his sleeps and he slept 12-3.30am in his crib, 4.30-7.30am and 8-10am, with us which was amazing and a nice Sunday lie in!

Seeing doctor this week for reflux as he is definately in pain when we lie him flat and is sick up to an hour after a feed.

He has been a lot more settled today. Probably because he isn't shattered!

Fingers crossed for tonight! X

[jessmum46]

glad it went well and hope tonight is equally good!!

[ZacsMumme]

Glad you had a good night. T will only settle on his left side when very refluxy, it's meant to aid digestion and promote stomach emptying. Just make sure you do it safely, as you know back sleeping is safest for SIDS.