Cannot get him on a routine! 4 months old

[claudiabrown]

First I tracked what was happening with his routine, and found there to be no consistent pattern. Sometimes he is sleepy 1.5 hours after last sleep, sometimes as long as 4 hours! Usually he sleeps 30/45 minutes, occasionally 2 hours. For the past 5 days I have tried to get him to conform to a schedule close to the ones suggested in Tracy's books. He is 3 months, 3 weeks but on the small side, so I tried for the 3 hour cycle for a few days. But I could not get him to sleep for 1.5 hours every nap so that threw his schedule off immediately. I also tried closer to a 3.5 hour/4 hour routine and same thing. I've tried the pu/pd method for getting him to nap longer but that did not work at all.  I've tried the shhh/pat and that has worked sometimes but not every time.

He usually sleeps in his Moses basket but will also fall asleep in the Ergo carrier on me or dad, and in his car seat. He falls asleep really well on his own, even when I've kept him up past the "tired window." I know, it sounds like, just keep him up longer! But its usually hard because he just starts to fall asleep almost wherever he is! He usually uses a paci to fall asleep but not always and he doesnt wake up after it falls out.

At night, he wakes up at 2 (though i've been able to put him back to sleep without feeding by putting hands on him. The real problem is the morning when he wakes up at 4:30/5 and after i manage to put him back to sleep, he wakes up every hour until I let him get out of bed.

He is generally a happy baby, can play by himself but loves attention and talking and standing. He is very active and vocal but also cuddly and sweet. Only cries when hungry or tired.

Anyway, does anyone have suggestions on how to get him on a more predictable regular schedule? Or is this just the way he is and I should roll with it?

[Aishi]

Hi

30 min naps are OT and 45 min naps are UT or developmental. Can u post your easy as best as u can in EAS format so we can see where your routine needs tweaking.

In the meantime have a read of these links

[Aishi]

Is my baby ready to increase his ‘A’ time? (incl. 'A' times for younger babies)

Average a times for 3mo is 1h20-30 min as your lo is almost 4mo that would be closer to higher end. A time is calculated from eyes open to shut so inc eat, activity, wind down and the time it takes lo to settle to sleep eg 20 min for textbook babies.

Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

Why is it important that my baby gets more than a 45 minute nap?

Teaching Sleep to Babies of 3-5 months (and the 45 min nap)

What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)

The FAQ page has lots more useful info

Hth

[claudiabrown]

Thank you, I'm going to read all this and post his day today which has already started with a 40 minute nap. I was trying to keep him up a bit longer so he was probably OT by the time I put him down.  He woke up at 7:30 and was looking tired by 8:45 but I kept him up till 9:30...But I've tried keeping him up 1.5 hours, 1 hour, or put him down as soon as he looks tired. He always goes down easy but wakes up after 30-45.

[Aishi]

It may be developmental then...when you increase a time you do need to be consistent for a few days to give lo time to time to adjust....does he fall asleep independantly for all sleeps? If there is a prop then that would prevent lo from transitioning too...post your easy and we can have a think

[claudiabrown]

Ok Here is today's E.A.S.Y

7:30 Wake up (typical fitful morning though. frequent wake ups from 4/5 on that i deal with shht/pat)
E  730-745
A  745-930 (kept him up longer than usual in an attempt to get him to nap longer. have tried shorter,longer, right when tired. but first yawn was at 845)
S  930-1010 (at wakeup, attempted to shh/pat but his eyes were wide open. no crying)
E  10:15-10:30
A  1030-11:15
S  11:20-11:55 (wind down was 5 minutes. He went from open to closed eyes in 3. When he awoke crying, I attempted shh/pat. Didnt work. Picked him up and walked him around. Still was crying and seemed hungry. Fed him. Went back to sleep for another 1.5!! 
A  11:55-12:10
E  12:05-12:20
S  12:25-2:05 
E  205-2:20
A  2:20-3:30
S  3:40-4:25 (10 minute wd, 10 minutes eyes open to eyes closed. woke up crying.)
E  4:25-4:40  (attempted to put him down after eating but only lasted 5 minutes so i'll just skip the s on this one)
A  4:45-6:00
S  6:00-6:45 (cat nap. woke him up from this one.)
E  7:30-7:45
E  8:00-8:10
S  8:15  (15 min. from eyes open to eyes closed. I think was a little OT)

For sleep during day, our wind down consists of sitting quietly, walking around,  soft lullaby, swaddling, then into his basket with a paci and white noise. Sometimes I cheat with a little nip snack from mama's breast. Those oxytocins help a boy sleep! But he doesn't seem  dependent on my breast for sleeping as he can def. go down without it.

Night time usually consists of a few wakings and I feed him and he eats a good amount, seem hungry. I have tried feeding him more during the day but he never goes more than 15 minutes at a time. Seems like an efficient eater though. But then he is hungry at night so maybe not...But anyway, I'm trying to figure out daytime schedule first, then hoping some of the night issues might get resolved on their own. Is this erroneous thinking?

Our activities include talking, sitting, standing, play mat, bouncy chair, walks outside, chores with mama in ergo carrier, looking out window, going on errands or visits...Today I made sure our activities were not overly stimulating. Overall, he's pretty content but very active and alert.

Thank you for any feedback!

[Papaya]

Hugs, 4 months is a tough time developmentally. There's often a BIG growth spurt now too - so it's possible that is disturbing his sleep at the moment. In general though, his feeds during the day seem very close together - usually only 2.5hrs or so? I would try spacing them out, and you will probably find that he feeds better and ends up taking in more during the day. I would expect him to be able to do at least 3-3.5 hrs between feeds now - some BF babies can do 4 hours at this age, others are closer to 6 months before they can manage that.

I would stick with about a 1hr45 A time for at least 3-4 days. It can take a while to see a difference in nap length. It may be that he needs a little longer, but the average for this age is 1hr45-2hrs. I would really try not to give an extra feed just before a nap - it could encourage snacking (which can lead to less overall intake during the day) and may become a prop issue if he needs it to feel sleepy, even if he's not feeding to sleep.

Oh, and I would stick with shh/pat at this age, rather than PU/PD - it's better for older babies, too stimulating for littlies

I'm trying to figure out daytime schedule first, then hoping some of the night issues might get resolved on their own.

Yup, this is often the case. I'd focus on daytime for a couple of weeks, then if you're still having problems at night you can reassess.

What do you think?

xx

[claudiabrown]

Thanks for your reply, Papaya. I agree that breastfeeding is becoming a prop for getting back to sleep, both at night and day. Also I was feeding more often in fears that he would wake up quickly because he was hungry. But I will try to keep him up for 1 hour 45 min (does that include feeding or only A?)

Last night, he woke up nearly every hour. It was brutal and two people have already said he's probably teething. He is drooling a lot and biting on things. Could he be teething already? I guess my sister grew teeth at 4 months.

This morning, lo stayed up from 630 all the way to 915 bc dad couldn't get him to down. He slept an hour and a half! Just now I've kept him up 1 hour 45 minutes and just put him down. Lets see what happens!

[claudiabrown]

One more question: If I'm trying to extend his nap after he's woken up at the 45 minute mark, is it better to feed him if it is the only way to gets him back to sleep, or not feed him to sleep and let him start activity time? Whenever he wakes up, most times he is crying and wont settle until I feed him. And yes, I feed him to go back to sleep at night. I really just can't handle doing anything else at night, I'm sooooo tired!

[Papaya]

But I will try to keep him up for 1 hour 45 min (does that include feeding or only A?)

A time is everything from eyes open to eyes closed again, so includes feeding and any settling time.

He could be teething I guess - 4 months is young but some have to be earlier than average, right?! Have you tried any teething meds to see if it makes a difference to his sleep?

If I'm trying to extend his nap after he's woken up at the 45 minute mark, is it better to feed him if it is the only way to gets him back to sleep, or not feed him to sleep and let him start activity time?

I think if he's settling independently for his nap initially (without needing a bf), and you do this sometimes, it isn't a big problem at this age - it is a tough age for transitioning and he will learn that skill with time so long as he is an independent sleeper and his A times are right. BUT if bf is becoming a prop for naps, I would avoid bfing him back to sleep on a regular basis as I think it might be confusing for him. If you do just accept the short nap and get him up, I would give him a bit of A time before feeding to try and keep the feeds as spaced as possible.

Feeding back to sleep at night is fine - I think most LOs just naturally drift off again! But I would try to keep feeds as spaced at night as they are during the day. If he can do 3.5hrs during the day, he should be able to do the same at night, so try to resettle without a feed if he wakes before that time (unless of course you think it's a growth spurt and he's genuinely hungry )

Yay for a good nap this morning!

[claudiabrown]

Something dawned on me. He wakes up at 45 minutes from his naps because he is hungry. Yesterday I fed him about half an hour before his nap instead of immediately after and he had two big naps! Hour and a half, and an hour and 45 minute one! He seemed very happy and well rested yesterday.

[Papaya]

Could be that 4 month growth spurt! Glad you got some good naps yesterday.