Trying to start EASY with 7 mth old - DD has so many NW!!!

[cnaz]

I am in desperate need of some advice! My DD is 7 mths old and has never slept for more then 4 hours. This was very short lived for about 2 weeks when she was 5 mths old she would do a stretch a few times a week of 4 hours. For the past 5 weeks she has been getting up every 1-3 hours, and continually stays awake in the night. It started when she had a cold and was very mucousy. For about a week she was waking up every hour and being sick I went to her very quickly to try to re-settle her. Then the teething began. She has two teeth in the past 3 weeks, and had a hard time with them. I do not think she is teething right now but am not sure so for the past few nights I have been giving her Advil, and Tylenol and it has made no difference in the amount she wakes up.

I have had really no schedule with her, and think it is so important to get one hoping it would be the fix we need. The problem is I have to bring my daughter to kindergarten every second day, so I leave the house from 8:30 until 9:00, and 3:00 until 3:45 in order to drop her off and pick her up. I often have to wake her up at 8:15, and again at 3:00 from her naps because of this. If someone could help me plan a 4 hour schedule around this I would really appreciate it!

I have recorded over the past three days what her days look like. Hope it is not too confusing! I should also note, she goes to sleep independently! She has a Paci, but many times at night doesn't want it. She keeps her lips tight closed and if I try to stick it in her mouth she coughs before I even get it in? Then when she gets really sleepy she won't go to sleep with out it. I am wondering if it bothers her teeth? She does not know how to find it in her crib yet. She is breastfed (will absolutely not take a bottle - we have tried for 4 months!)

Here is her schedule (if you can call it one I have tried to put in in EASY format:

Jan 31:

nursed at 5:30am
Awake for day at: 8:30 ( no school for oldest DD)
A: 8:30-9:30
E: 9:30 (cereal)
A: 9:45-10:45
S: 11:00-12:15
A: 12:15-1:15
E: 1:15 (veggie)
A: 1:35-2:30
S: 2:45-4:05
E: 4:30 (Breastfed only)
A: 4:45-5:30
E: 5:30 (small amount of cereal)
A: 5:45-6:45
Bedtime: 7:00
8:30 woke, gave soother and settled
9:50 Breastfed fully
12:20 woke and settled with breastfeed one side
3:30 woke and Breastfed fully
5:45 woke and gave soother. Stayed awake until 6:45
slept until 8:45 am

Feb 1

Awake 8:45
E: 8:55
A: 9:00-11:30
S: 11:30-12:30
E: 12:45 (veggie)
A: 1:00-2:30
S: 2:30-3:15
E: 4:00 Breastfed fully
A: 4:10-6:15
E: 6:15 Cereal
BT: 6:45 Woke 4x's between 6:45-9:45
E: 9:45 Breastfed
E: 12:45 Breastfed one side, stayed awake until 1:20
E: 2:45 Breastfed fully
Awake from 5:00-5:30 am
Up for day at 8:00

Feb.2

Up at 8:00
E: 8:15 (fruit)
A: 8:30-10:00
S: 10:00-12:00
A: 12:00-1:00
E: 1:00
A: 1:15-2:00
S: 2:00-2:50
A: 3:00-5:00 (left to go out for the day)
E: 5:00
A: 5:15-5:30
S: 5:30-6:30 (slept in car on way home)
E: 8:30
BT: 8:45
Woke up at 10:00 gave soother and settled
E: 11:30 pm Breastfed Fully
E: 1:50 am small amt, wide awake until ? Settled self, no crying just playing ( I fell asleep)
Awake from 4:00-4:30 am Breastfed
Awake from 6:30-7:00 am
Awake from day at 8:00 am

So that is our eradict schedule! I obviously need help She is such a good baby during the day. Very happy and easy to go to sleep for naps. The difficulty is always at nighttime, and often when she is awake in the night she is happy. As soon as she sees me she kicks and smiles. I do not let her cry, only mantra cry to see if she will settle herself and then I go in if she starts to cry. I try to settle first without picking her up by giving her soother, and rubbing her back etc... I will often try to feed her as many times she eats fully on both sides like she is hungry? Then she doesn't want to eat much during the day. It is a vicious circle that I need to break somehow.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Also, I am sure that many will suggest extending her A time to three hours as I have read this is more suitable for her age. By the two hour mark she is rubbing her eyes and ready to sleep for sure by the 2.5 hour mark. I am afraid if I keep her up longer she will get OT, and she is soo tired from the poor night sleep that I don't know if she can make it awake for the 3 hours without getting super tired. If this is something that will help though I am definetely willing to try it. Again, any advice would be so helpful, I am completely out of ideas!

[Erin M]

Hi there!
I definitely think the A time is part of it.  Our LOs, they get so used to sleeping at a "usual" time that they come to expect it, and sometimes you have to fight them on it to extend it -- then you have to wonder -- is your shorter A time causing your night wakings, or are your night wakings causing your shorter A time -- obviously we could go back and forth on this one, but let's just forge ahead and try to figure out how we might try to fix it. 

Something that I'm noticing is that you've got her down in bed for a really long night -- over 12 hours most nights, except on the night when she took a late third nap.  At this age, we'd probably expect that she'd do a 12 hour night tops, sometimes even 11 at this age as they lengthen their day with the 2 naps + 3 hours of A time before.  I realize that your night wakings mean that she's not asleep for the entire time, but we should try to work with that. 

Working around your school runs, I'd try something like this:
8 AM - WU
11-1 - Nap 1
4-5:30/6 - nap 2 (depends on how she sleeps -- I'd probably go for waking her on the earlier side to preserve BT)
8PM - BT (this isn't going to work if she sleeps until 6, you'd most likely have to wait until closer to 9 -- my thought would be to wake her earlier from that second nap)

As you can see, you need to get a good restorative nap in for that first A time in order to get the schedule to work around that PM school run (they're a pain, I did them all last year with my ds and my oldest daughter). 

What do you think?  Workable?

[Erin M]

Meant to mention about extending A times -- do it nice and slowly -- only by 10-15 minutes every few days.  I always found a change in scenery really helped mine, so as we reached the fussy point I would move around the house, talking to my ds about what we were looking at, looking out the windows, things like that.  If the weather permits, going outside always helped us too.  We would generally head up to his room when he had about had it and be able to get a few more minutes out of playing quietly on his floor with quiet toys. 

[cnaz]

Thank you so much for your input! I will definetly try the schedule and it will work with our routine of drop off and pick up for Kindergarten. Will also allow me to still get ready between 7:00-7:45, and wake my other two DD's to get them ready to go and start them eating breakfast before my LO wakes up.This site is so great, I have been thinking in my head how to work it around my DD's school and one look at my post and you had it figured out in a second

I will try to slowly increase her awake time starting tomorrow by 10 - 15 minutes every couple days. I agree that she needs to be awake longer at a time.

As far as the night time feedings? Do you think I should keep this up for now and see how the extended A times help her NW's? I am finding that she isn't eating that much during the day. No where near the amount of solids I thought she would be by now with having started them at 6 months. Sometimes I can only get her to eat 1 tbsp of cereal at a time. I am sure it is because she eats so much at night that again we have the "chicken or the egg" situation! LOL!

Again, thanks so much! So happy to have a site to get support from

[Erin M]

I have been thinking in my head how to work it around my DD's school and one look at my post and you had it figured out in a second 

Lots of personal experience on that one, it's tricky fitting things around school runs!

Regarding night feeds -- I would think that she doesn't need to eat so often at night either -- we say at this age that we expect them to go as long (or longer) at night as they do during the day.  That being said, if you find that even at those intervals, she's only taking enough to send herself back to sleep, I would discourage it (though on the flip side, having a night feed -- or even two -- at this age would be within the realm of normal) -- honestly, that's one where you have to trust whether or not she truly needs it.  With my girls, I would try every now and then to settle them back to sleep without nursing by rocking, walking, etc -- and if they were able to sleep for a decent amount of time after that and it was something I could repeat for several nights, then I wouldn't offer it anymore.  With my ds, it didn't matter how many times I'd soothe him back to sleep, he'd just keep waking and waking and waking -- I truly believe he genuinely needed to eat at night until he lost that last night feed around the 11 month mark.  I notice on your EASY that sometimes she takes good, full feeds, and sometimes she's only taking a bit -- I'd probably look to see what kind of pattern you can find and base your decision on that.  For what it's worth, my dd2 and my ds really had no interest in solids until about the 8 month mark, I just kept on offering and eventually they turned into good eaters.  Kind of frustrating though. 

And yes, if you get the routine right, you might not have to worry as much about eliminating night feeds!

[cnaz]

Thanks Again! Last night was okay.

BT: 7:00pm
E: 9:50 (full feed)
E: 2:10! Yay, she hasn't gone that long in a while, almost never!
awake at: 4:20 (gave soother and shh, but spit soother out and just played. Went back in two times, and then at 5:45 I fed her, but was only a half feed)
E:5:45
up for day at 8:15
A: 8:15-9:30
E: 9:30 (tried to give her cereal and she did not want it, had two bites!) No breastfeed at this time.
E: 10:30 Breastfed fully
S: 10:30-1:15 (tried to expand her A time a bit instead of her sleeping at 2 hour mark)
E: 1:30 attempted cereal again, and she took three bites and will not eat it, then only BF for a few seconds!

This is the day so far. Good to know that your LO was not interested in food until closer to 8 months. My older DD's loved to eat and picked it up right away and would eat anything, so this refusing food is new to me!

It is 2:45 here, and she is already rubbing her eyes, and tired, but I need her to stay up for one more hour while I pick up my DD from school. I have a feeling she will fall asleep anyway in the car seat!

Thanks for your help, and I will see how tonight goes

[Erin M]

You look like you're on the right track -- and you look like you know where you're headed too!
Keep doing bf before cereal at this age, the breast milk is more important -- have you done any fruits/veggies?  I found that mine liked those much better than cereal (more nutritious anyway). 

Hope your night is good, you got a great first half of the night last night at least!