Worried about my method of extending naps

[Georgena]

Hi there, i seem to be on here a lot lately!
I just want to check that im not doing a form of CIO or CC because thats not what i want, so, this last week ive been working on DD naps.( shes 11 weeks)  Ive been going into the room at about 30 mins in and as she stirs at 40 mins on the dot ive been putting my hand on her chest and shhshing, i dont pat because that seems to wind her up more. So, the first day wasn't so good,but we are getting there now.
My questions are
Do i pick her up out of the cot and if yes when? She has a very obvious difference between winging and really not happy cry,when do i pick her up or do i keep soothing her in the cot, if she stays in the cot with me trying to sooth her this isnt any form of CIO is t??
Also, today i thought id leave her alone to see if she wakes up at 40 mins and to see what she does,the first nap i stood by the door, she whimpered and winged then closed her eyes and went back to sleep!!!  second nap i was downstairs and she did the same whimper and quiet and whimper and quiet a few times so i just left her to it,then she suddenly broke into an almighty cry,i left her to listen for no more than a minute then i went up,talking on the way ' its ok baby girl,mummy's coming'. By the time i got in the room she had passed out, is this a form of CIO??
I really don't want DD to think I'm not responding to her when she needs me but i dont want to rush in all the time, I've been reading up on the effects of CIO and i really don't want to go there, poor little things,it breaks my heart to think of her losing trust in Mummy!!
First time Mum btw and loving this forum!!
Thanks everyone

[zeri]

Hi Georgena,
No, that isn't controlled crying or cry it out As I understand it, CC is when you let them cry for a specific set number of minutes before going to them, and keep extending the time. CIO is when you just let them cry themselves to sleep. It sounds like what you are doing is good - soothing her back into sleep when she is restless with a hand on her back. I would suspect that when she broke into a big cry but was asleep again by the time you reached her, it might have just been gas that woke her and when it passed she fell back asleep. you might find this helpful :
Pat/shush for babies under 3 months old

[creations]

Agree with zeri, you are not doing any form of CC or CIO in your method.
Sometimes LOs let out a big wail at the end of their mantra, just as they fall to sleep, almost like a last fight to stay awake or an announcement that they are drifting off.  It's ok to hang back briefly to check if it is this sort of cry out (or like PP said, wind) dashing in too quickly at this point can put LO off falling to sleep and upset them, if the cry continues you go in, just as you are doing.
I also verbally reassure when I am on my way up to my DS, this alone means you are not using CC, when they hear your voice they know they are being attended to.  Sometimes (esp as they get older) verbal reassurance from outside the room is all that is needed, or even preferable depending on the reason for WU.
WRT when to lift her out of the cot - if she is in distress and soothing in the cot is not being successful then don't be afraid to pick her up and sooth her in arms, she may need only a brief shush/pat (or adapted if she doesn't like pat) before being put down again to continue soothing in the cot.  If she is mantra crying, there is no need to pick up as this will disrupt her self settling process.
Sounds like you are doing great. The wake to sleep you did for a couple of days has helped teach her to transition from one sleep cycle to another.  go mummy!

[Georgena]

Thank you ladies!! That makes me feel A LOT better!!   
Still having issues with the first nap, but i know she can self sooth,she does it when she goes to sleep and at least one nap a day shes down for 2 hours with no trouble, she wakes,has a fuss then is asleep again. Do you think i should keep going in and continue working on the morning nap?
Thanks again for your support!! 

[creations]

If she's stirring and self settling during the morning nap I would leave it until there is a problem.  If she is waking at the 40 min mark and not resettling it could be a number of things, possibly that she is:
- UT for this nap and needs a longer first A time
- coming down with a cold or something else.  If she is healthy it is more likely UT.
- too hot or too cold in bed
- disturbed by an external noise during her transition time which prevents her self settling and transitioning into the next sleep cycle.

WRT if you should keep working on lengthening the nap, I'd say yes so long as you are happy to do so.  If it becomes stressful or exhausting for you I would suggest accepting the short nap and moving on with your day.  Happy mummy is more important than a perfect routine.
hope this helps

[Georgena]

Hey,yes it helps!!
I will keep working on this morning nap for a while, i will try and extend her A time a bit, was making it shorter cos i thought she was OT but thats not working so i will go the other way! The only problem is i dont always know what time she wakes up as she can lay in her cot for a least 30 mins just having a nice time before shes had enough!! I s'pose i really need to keep an eye on her tired ques but i still wont know how long she has actually been awake!
Also, she always seems to be pretty hungry when she wakes after 45mins (1st nap) would that be stopping her transition? Is it bad to top her up before that 1st nap? Ive never done it cos i worry about it becoming a prop and she is so good at self settling that i dont want to screw it up!!
Happy Easter by the way ladies!! 

[creations]

My LO always hangs out in his bed for a while before calling out too.  If you aren't sure what time she wakes just time from when she calls out as a guidance as it's likely to be roughly the same length of time she entertains herself each morning before calling for attention.  It might look like this first A time is different to the rest of the day as a result - and some LOs like a shorter or longer first A time anyway, so yes looking for cues is good too.
How often are you feeding now?  Would you like to post a real day eAS times?  I'm just wondering about her being really hungry after a short nap, and you asking about feeding before the nap because it's ok to have some A time between S and E if they wake from the nap early and not yet due a feed.  It's possible if she is snacking she may not be taking enough at each feed to get through but I'm just speculating, as I don't know your times.

Happy Easter to you too

[Georgena]

I think in the morning shes a bit of a snacker!! I'm on the (trying to be) 3hr easy, but alot of the times in the morning she struggles to get to 2 1/2 hrs.
Shes just coming up to 12 weeks and i think she has hit a growth spurt, she woke 3 times last night and was really hungry,she never does that, the one thing Ive always been able to count on are her nights are good, usually just wakes once anywhere between 2-4am,so i will put her easy from yesterday,for a laugh!! And i will put an average easy day as well

Yesterday:-
WU 6:30
E.   6.45
A
S.   8:10

E.   9:05
A
S.  10:35- 11:20

E.  11:35
A
S. 13h-15h
 
E. 15:05
A
S. 16:40-17:15

E 17:20
A
E.19h
Bath
Asleep 19:45
WU @
22h
02h
05:30
All times she ate well.

OK, so, a normal/average day goes like this
WU 06:30/06:45
E. 07h
A
S. 08:30-09:25

E. 09:30
A
S. 11h (ish) sometimes goes for 1-1/2 hrs, sometimes 45 mins, when its shorter the feed is usually closer to 12:30 

E 12:30/13h
A
S. 14h

E 15:30/16h
A
S.17:15/17:30 if shes had a bad day for naps then i usually have to wake her for bt routine. If not, 45 mins and shes awake
 
E. 18:30/19h i try and push it as close to 19h as i can,dont know if i should be doing that or not??
A bath,cuddle,
S. 20h

DF 10:30
 
Ive been looking over the last week and its all been a bit inconsistant with the naps but been trying to stick to E times as much as possible,in the morning though she has a fit if i try to extend till 10! Her 7h feed is always shorter than her 9:30 feed, that 9:30 feed she always seems to be at her most hungry!

So yes, I'm a bit confussed with the growth spurt, i will cluster feed her tonight, I'll aim for 19h, 21h and DF @ 22:30 and hope that helps her through the night,but that morning nap is becoming a mystery to me! Any insights will be very much appreciated!!

[creations]

I wonder if that first nap is possibly a little late for her and although she gets through the first transition at around 45 mins she jolts out of sleep 10 mins (or so) later?  Have you tried a shorter first A time?  At 3 months a guidance would be 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 A time, now my LO generally liked a longer first A and the times ARE only guidance so if you've already figured out this works best for your LO then that's fine, otherwise maybe try reducing that first A for several days, with the nap extension shush/pat too and see where it gets you? (currently looks like 1hr 45 to 2hrs A time, rather long for age).

With the feeds, if she wakes very hungry I would feed, but keep in mind that you don't need to automatically feed at every WU after a nap.  I don't think I would feed before that first nap because it would be only about 1hr (or less) from the first feed of the day, which would encourage snacking.  As naps extend you will find she is able to last until the 3hr E more easily because she is asleep.
I would bring BT earlier too.  It's a very long day and a long last A time to bed.  The CN is only intended as a short nap to give LO enough energy to get through the bath/feed/BT routine.  They can't really last a full A after a CN.  You also don't need to wait the full 3hrs before feeding in the evening before bed, do the regular feed after WU from CN and then another feed before BT even if it is only an hour later.

Obviously you need to feed through a GS so ride through the extra NWs during this phase.
hth x

[Georgena]

Thank you so much for looking over that for me  i will try shorter A times in the morning, hadn't realised until writing it down that she was awake so long, oopps  will have a look at bt too, usually she wakes between 6 and 6:30, so its fine to feed her straight away bath and bed? I always try to feed before the bath cos she has a habit of falling asleep on the boob!!
Thanks again for all your time!! 
Georgie . 

[creations]

usually she wakes between 6 and 6:30, so its fine to feed her straight away bath and bed?

As you tweak the first A time, reducing, and nap times (hopefully lengthening) this 6.30pm WU from the CN will likely change.  Yes it is ok to feed at CN  WU and again at BT.  If you usually do the BT feed before the bath to make sure she is awake for BT that's fine too.  Having feeds closer together in the evening is cluster feeding rather than snacking iyswim.