45 min UT mystery

[teddy13]

Hello,
I am in the midst of trying to decode my 7 month old DS sleep patterns. There have been four days in the past 7 months that he has mysteriously slept for 1.5 hours long. On all other days it is 40-45 minutes at a time. He wakes up from these short naps happy and babbling rarely ever crying. His A time is now around 2.75-3.0 hours long. He always ends up OT which forces us to decrease his A times for the rest of the day and we cannot get out of this vicious cycle. I have tried to soothe him back to sleep at the 45 minute mark, I have also tried to settle him just before he wakes nothing works. Nothing! I am desperate to figure this out. Any tips or suggestions. The main thing is that he wakes up when I am still asleep so I can't really predict what time his day starts b/c he is so happy and calm in his bed he starts talking loud and thats when I start counting his A time. I could be as much as half hour off. How should I deal with this?
Thanks

[Eva's Mummy]

Hi, Just jumping on to say that sounds like my LO. I'm sure you will get better advice but for me we had to push out the A times, we are at 3hrs 10 mins and still pushing. I would say that you are getting a short 45 min UT naps which is leading to the second nap being OT and short. Like me your good naps was probably just your LO catching up on some OT so not a good judge of where your A time should be.

I would push the first A out slightly, 5 mins at a time if you think he is easily OT and hold for 3-4 days then keep going until you get a good first and consistant nap then do the same with the second A time.

All our naps are now 1hr 10mins so we are startig to push the first A time out again.

[teddy13]

Thanks
My biggest issue is that I cannot judge how long A times should be b/c he wakes up and is really quiet, only when he starts babbling really loud do I get up and hear him. He seems tired at the 2hr mark and I am push him until 3 but he still only sleeps 45 mins. Also on most mornings we take my DD to school and he 45 minute naps in the car on the way back and this throws his whole day off. What should I do any advice is very very welcomed and severly needed. I need sleep and this is not working for anybody. The fact that he doesn't nap well is messing with his night sleep. Speaking of nightsleep I am off to sleep myself.
Thanks again.

[Eva's Mummy]

Jessmum46 has been giving me lots of great advice so i have asked her to have a wee look for you as she has way more knowledge than me. She will be able to keep you right.

Night night

[teddy13]

Thanks so much I look forward to hearing from her.

[jessmum46]

Can you post a day in EAS format for us?  Don't worry if its not strictly in that order

Is he an independent sleeper?

[teddy13]

6:30am-7:00am he wakes up I change him and breastfeed him\
8:00-8:30am he eats his rice/fruit mix
9:00 he naps usually for 45 mins (which throws off the whole day's plan so he will eat earlier than 11 as planned)
10:30am Bottle 4 oz formula
12 he is tired so he needs another nap usually another 45 mins
1pm he drinks milk when he wakes
1:45-2:00 we leave to pick up my daugther come back at 2:30
2:30 we eat lunch
3:30 he naps again
4:30 rice cereal
6:00 bath
6:30 Breastfeed
7:00 sleeping
He will wake up at 12:00 midnight and then again every 2/5 to three hours. The past two nights he has managed 5 and four hour stretches.

I am able to put him in his crib for naptimes and bedtime almost asleep and he falls asleep on his own. He wakes up babbling from his naps and in the morning and he hardly every wakes up crying only if he has had a very OT day. He poops regularly and he is in general a very happy baby. I suspect though that him eating at night is causing him to take in less calories during the day. I would ideally like him at this point to be sleeping through from 12 -7am without a feed. Thanks again
desperate to figure this out for him

[jessmum46]

In terms of the routine, I would start to push out your morning A time by 10 mins every 3-4 days as he is on a relatively short first A for his age at the moment.  The 45 min nap may well be UT.  His second nap may also be UT even after a short first nap as many babies can do close to a full A time after a 45 min nap (ie a whole sleep cycle), so you probably need to start gently increasing the second A too.

If you can get to closer to 3h A times then you can do without a CN and do EBT if necessary - there's some good information in here: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

At night are you feeding him at every waking?  I'm wondering if there is a prop issue here too.....I would suggest you start putting him down more awake rather than almost asleep as it may well be he is relying on you more than you think.  One night feed is probably reasonable at this age, possibly two but I certainly wouldn't feed more often than that.  I would suggest you feed at midnight, then not again until 5am and use PUPD for any other wakings. 

What do you think?

[teddy13]

Thanks so much. I have set a goal for both of us today. Two feeds ONLY. PUPD for the rest of the wakings. I just put him down in his crib for the night and he is whimpering and babbling. I am waiting to go in and help him soothe without picking him up is that ok? I will not feed I keep telling myself that all day. Hopefully I get through it. Wish me luck. I will tackle A times tomorrow also and let you know how it goes. Its the school runs that mess with the A times and napping.

[lily_layne]

My biggest issue is that I cannot judge how long A times should be b/c he wakes up and is really quiet

We've had this problem too and I've found that it works best if I only count A times from the time I get DD up.  I've experimented with leaving her playing in her crib when she wakes for different amounts of time and it always seems to work best if I don't include that time. 

[jessmum46]

Good luck!

[teddy13]

Thank you! I just had one major question before I start tonight. Is it worth feeding him at 11:00pm before he wakes? Or at this point should I wait until he wakes up? I want to give him a breastmilk and formula mix and avoid the bf. I keep telling myself I am going to stop bf but I haven't managed yet...

[teddy13]

Dear Jessmum46,
Thanks for all the advice my LO has a cold right now should I respond to every waking with feeding for comfort just for tonight and try this another night maybe? Or does it not matter?

[jessmum46]

Yes you could definitely do a dream feed between 10 and 11pm rather than waiting for him to wake.

Personally I still wouldn't feed at every NW even if LO has a cold, but would try to offer extra comfort if needed in another way e.g. cuddles.  You have to do what feels right for you though and if you don't think you'll feel comfortable sticking to the feeding plan tonight I would save it until you are confident LO is well.

[jessmum46]

Please continue to offer advice and support here: Re: School run/routine for 7 month old