5 month old night wakings

[MommaBun]

My 5 mo has NEVER slept through the night or been a good night sleeper.  We started sleep training about a week ago and things have actually gotten worse. Getting her to go down for naps is torture (but our babysitters three days a week say it's fine). It was really easy she'd go down awake for at least 2 of the 3 naps but now i put her down awake and she just cries. I give her back the paci and leave and she cries again until I come in and give her back the paci. This is repeated a few times until she goes to sleep. At night she nurses is swaddled arms out is given the binkie and is held for 10 min due to reflux. She's put in crib drowsy but awake and goes to sleep on her own. Night wakings are usually around 11,12 and 1 then she eats at 330ish. For the NW where she doesn't eat, I do the same as I do for naps (cry for a few min give paci hand on chest leave room repeat). I tried typical PUPD and shush pat but I felt it was just too stimulating and she would be up for an hour, where this is usually only 20-30 min. I'm at my wits end. I have a very active 2 yr old who is also not sleeping well so I can't spend a ton of time helping her go to sleep for naps and I need her to sleep better during the night. I am ok with getting rid of paci as I think that is our major problem but DH is not. Her schedule is different every single day due to her not going down for or taking short naps. I am also trying for a 4 hour schedule but with wonky naps it's hard. here is a good sample

630 awake
645-7 eat (BF)
8 nap
9 if I'm lucky awake
10 eat
1145-12 nap. this nap is often non existent or so short I put her to bed much earlier for the next nap
1 eat
2 asleep
4 awake and eat
7 bed time in bed by 730

I know that last stretch is a long one. I can't really get her to bed any earlier with our schedule. However once or twice I have put her down at 630 and the night is no better. Hope I didn't leave anything out. Any and all advice welcome. How do I make naps easier to go down? And how do I make NW disappear?

[PaulsMom]

Hi there!

Hugs for the nw's.  It's hard when they are up for frequently at night. 

WRT sleep training, it is tough when you are changing how you are doing things and it will take a while for a LO to get used to new methods.  Depending on her temperament, some techniques will work better than others and sleep training may take longer, especially if things are not consistent.  Do you know your Lo's temperament?  If you are not sure, you can look at the following link. 
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"

Although I don't have any BTDT experience with reflux, PU/PD may aggravate reflux so I wouldn't use this technique if her reflux isn't completely controlled.  As well, I believe some mums will pat the LO's bums rather than pat the back when their LOs have reflux.  You may want to adapt the shh-pat for your LO.

WRT the paci weaning, normally I would suggest to wean it but for a LO with reflux, the paci may be of some benefit so I would keep it for the time being unless you think that she will suck her hands (I don't know if you want this though  ). 

Thanks for posting her schedule.  Getting to a 4 hr EASY can be hard especially if there are short naps.  I've noticed that your first A time is short which may be the reason she's fighting her first nap. Here are the average A times
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"
If possible, I'd start to bump out her nap by increasing her A by 10-15 min every few days until her A is around 2 hrs / 2 hrs 15 min. 

Her second A time is actually longer than the average so you may want to shorten this A so she's up for around 2 hrs instead of 2 hr 45 min. 

For her last A, if you can't do an early BT, then try to have the activities all very low key so she's not getting over stimulated.  Some babies do alright with a longer last A. 

WRT to night feeds / nw's.... would you consider feeding her at 11 pm (sort of like a dream feed) and then do the 3:30 am feed?  I'm wondering if she is waking due to hunger around 11 and then is waking roughly every sleep cycle due to this?  It's not unusual for a 5 month old to get a feed around 10-11 pm (df) and then one other feed during the night.

HTH

[MommaBun]

Thank you for your input. Oddly, she is more of an angel baby except for sleep, where I would classify her as more touchy. I'm trying to get her A times more appropriate but it's been a bit of a challenge as she does not always cooperate and with working and pick ups/ drop offs from babysitter, the last cat nap usually gets missed, so she pretty much goes down overtired.
I really don't think she's hungry at 11, although you make a good point. She has usually eaten 4 hours previously and I did try to dream feed her once this week (although it was at 10, when I went to bed) and she was still up at 12.
When she wakes up at night, she is WIDE awake. Is there a reason for this, I've read it could be UT, but there is no way she is, I feel she has got to be OT. Here is her general schedule from yesterday (I wasn't with her so don't know exact day info) She napped from 9-10:30 and I think 1-3:30
7- 20 min cat nap (we were out and she just crashed)
8 asleep and fed
1145 - wide awake, PUPD back to sleep 12
1:45 awake and I fed her
3:30 awake for paci
6 - awake and ate would not go back to sleep.

She wakes up completely happy and chatting but I can't imagine she slept enough. She will not fall asleep on her own if I put her down drowsy. She hangs out for a bit but then cries and I have to go in, give her paci put my hand on her chest and repeat 2-3 times until she closes her eyes and eventually goes to sleep.

I also think the NW are habitual but I can't really predict when they will happen to wake her a little before to reset the sleep cycle. I'm really at a loss and am trying with the schedule but it is not easy working and having ODD. Thanks for any further input

[PaulsMom]

Hmmm...  when she wakes at night, some of this can be from being OT. When anyone is OT, we have elevated stress hormones so sleep is more restless and we can wake more easily.  This goes for babies and adults.  So if she's wide awake, it could be this. 

Given that she's touchy WRT to sleep, then things do need to be done more gradually. 

She will not fall asleep on her own if I put her down drowsy. She hangs out for a bit but then cries and I have to go in, give her paci put my hand on her chest and repeat 2-3 times until she closes her eyes and eventually goes to sleep.

What I would start to do PU/PD (since it's working for her), then give her the paci and put your hand on her chest while she's drowsy and see how it goes.  Once she settles and sleeps like this, then I would do all of the steps but don't have your hand on her chest until she's asleep. 

If you think that the 11 pm nw is habit, then you can W2S around 10 pm and see how it goes.  I haven't used this technique but other moms have had a lot of success with it.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)