Help pls! 13 mo waking every 2 hrs to nurse

[goso2]

Hello,
I've been reading these forums on and off for months. I've read so many books, did so much research and couldn't come to a simple solution for us. I wouldn't say "our problem" because usually when I've had enough and am decided to be drastic, I start reading some more and get mellow; maybe I should allow him to give up nursing at night on his own, maybe I should be more understanding, he still needs me etc. 

My beautiful wonderful son wakes up at least 5 times a night. There were some nights when he would sleep for 4 hours the first sleep, then wake up, nurse a bit, fall asleep then sleep 2 hours maybe, wake up again, nurse and so on. After 3 am he wakes up almost every hour until 5.30 - 6 am when he wakes up for the day.
Normally he has his dinner around 6 pm, plays a bit, at 6.30 he has his bath, nurses and then goes to sleep around 7 pm. I've been separated from my husband since Sept., so since then I started putting him in his crib for sleep, I wasn't able to continue to carry /rock/fight him to fall asleep. Usually he just talks a few minutes with his sleeping sheep and then falls asleep. Sometimes he cries a bit, then falls asleep. If his crying gets louder and louder, I go into the room, wipe his face, pick him up, sing a song, talk a bit, then tell him it's time to sleep, kiss him and put him back in his crib.
The first time I put him in his crib, he fell asleep very fast and woke up only 3 x that night! I was amazed!  (we sleep in the same room, I only have one bedroom). Then he went back to frequent wakings.
He sits up and starts crying, then stands up crying and gets louder, I've tried to ignore his crying for a few minutes, but he doesn't stop. In Sept. I would sometimes tell him it's night and he should go back to sleep, and he did!   however, it happened only a few times.
 For about a week at the beginning of Oct. I tried to nurse him once, then let him cry the next time he woke up. Oh my God, he was screaming his lungs out, crying so much! I didn't give in, I didn't want his crying/suffering to be in vain. But after a week I decided it was not working = he was not ready to let go of the breast at every waking, plus I was feeling guilty for letting him cry so much! He was crying for 10 minutes, on and off maybe; there were a few times when he cried for almost half an hour, it was so bad!
now that I'm writing this I remember and I wonder if I should stop writing to you.  I mean I'm not desperate, I've got used to waking up so much at night. I don't like it, but it comes with the territory I guess. I would love to wake up only once or twice a night, that would be heaven!

During the day he has two naps of 1-1.5 hours each: one around 8.30-9 am, another @1.30-2 pm. I work so during the day his dad takes care of him, and he started a few weeks ago to let him fall asleep on his own for naps. Sometimes our son cries (a lot) so he goes in there and rocks him to sleep. On week-ends ds falls asleep for naps while nursing sometimes.
I've tried giving him water or a pacifier, he doesn't want it! only the breast!He doesn't drink formula- I tried 2 different kinds, and after the first sip he gags (truth be told, I don't like the taste either).

I don't know what else to tell you. I guess what I want from you is some advice on dealing with his frequent wakings at night. If I only pick him up and walk, he starts kicking his legs (his sign that he wants to nurse) , gets agitated and starts crying. If I let him cry- he cries. If I talk to him to calm him down (from my bed)- he cries.
Should I stop nursing him altogether or could I still let him nurse once a night? if yes- when?

he never had weight problems, he's strong, very active and a very happy child. He eats solids but not big quantities. I've tried feeding him more (nutritious food) at dinner, but that didn't change anything.
I've lowered the room temperature (from 23-24 to 22), still no change. (only that I'm cold  )

I appreciate and welcome any suggestion/ advice/ experience.

Thanks!
Gabi

[anna*]

Hi Gabi.

You've tried a lot of things! I think the main thing now is consistency. You need to make sure he falls asleep without nursing every time. Yes he will cry and get agitated, because he's frustrated, but you must be committed. I agree that going from 5 x nursings to 0 would be too much - so for the first three days I would nurse him ONE time at night, and after that cut it out.

So the first time he wakes you would settle him without feeding. You don't need to pick him up, just sit next to the crib or lie on the floor next to it. Pat the mattress, tell him in your most tired, calm, bored voice that it is sleep time, lie down now. Sleep time, lie down now. You can expect it to take a long long time, and there will be a lot of crying. You can pick him up if you want to, but just for a quick cuddle then back in his crib. When he calms down it needs to be in his crib not in your arms.

At the next waking you could feed him, and then no more for the rest of the night.

After the first couple of nights, I want you to start moving away from the side of the crib as soon as he is calm. Your aim is to be out of the room before he falls asleep. So shuffle a good distance away, if he starts crying then keep repeating your sleepy phrase. You don't want to replace the nursing prop with a prop of having to sleep on his floor! Make sure you repeat the same sleepy phrase every time. Let's get DH on board to do no rocking at sleep time either.

How does that sound? Could you type out a normal day's routine too? He may need a bit more A time/a bit less daytime sleep as he is getting ready to go to one nap and if he is a bit more tired he may find it easier to stay asleep better at night.

[goso2]

Hi Anna, thanks for your reply.
Last night was tough, he slept 2-hr stretches only twice, then woke up every hour.
Let's see... he woke up at 5.40. Nursed, then played a bit, at 7.10 he had some oatmeal+ apple. Played some more. (walking around the house, pulling on things, going up and down the couch lol, you know...)
around 8.30 he has his first nap, anywhere from 40 minutes to 1.5 hours, usually it's about 1 hr.
snack time: some yoghurt+ cracker, fruit etc. Play time with daddy. At 12.05 I go home on my lunch break (I work very close) and nurse him. He plays some more. Around 12.40-1 pm he either has his nap inside, or his dad takes him to the park, and he gets his nap in the stroller, same thing, from 40' to 1 hr 10'. At 3.35 I get home, usually he nurses a bit, maybe snacks as well then we play/ he plays. He can play on his own, "reads" his books. Lately he's been quite eager for our attention, wants us involved more in his play.
After 6 he has dinner (baby cereal and fruit, cheese or soup with veggies and noodles, no meat at dinner), at 6.30 shower, then pj, now he's pulling onto my clothes and I nurse him - he nurses pretty well now-, then I put him in his crib as I described in the previous post.

does it help?

thanks!

[anna*]

OK well if bedtime is about 7pm, then I need you to treat anything before 6am as if it was the middle of the night. No more nursing. If he would go straight back to sleep after a 5am nursing that would be different, but getting up to start the day is a no way.

His routine is really wonky. Look at it like this. A = Awake, S= Sleep
5.40am A (awake 3 hrs 50mins)
8.30am S (nap 1hr)
9.30am A (awake 3hrs)
12.30pm S (nap 1hr)
1.30pm A (awake 5.5hrs)
7pm S

He has a really long A time before bed. I would aim for something like this.

5.30am (any wakings at this time are treated as if it was the middle of the night. No nursing or lights on or getting out of crib before 6am).
10am nap 45 mins.
10.45am awake
2pm nap (hopefully this will be at least 1.5hrs)
3.30pm awake
6.30-7pm asleep. If he woke up at 5am and didn't go back to sleep, he needs to be asleep for the night at 6am. So you can move bedtime 6-7pm depending how his naps were and what time his wake up was.

You can swap the nap times over if you prefer to do a long morning and short afternoon nap. At the moment his day is way too long.

What do you think? You think you're up for breaking the nurse to sleep prop at night, as per my previous post? You don't need to stop nursing entirely - I nursed both of mine until they were two years old, but without nursing them in the middle of the night. At 13 months I would nurse before breakfast, at bedtime, and 20 mins or so before the pm nap.

[goso2]

Hi Anna,
I'm ok with not bf-ing at night. In theory I know he's a big boy now and would be ok without it. He doesn't suck/drink a lot, just a few gulps, then just for comfort I guess, he doesn't really swallow. I just don't want to traumatize him .
I want to start your routine on Thu night. this way, if I'm sleepy on Friday it's ok, when I come home from work I can have a nap, plus I can sleep during the day on week-ends to catch up and have his dad spend time with him in the meantime. I will do more research until then.

I have some questions for you:
- when I try this, should he be alone in the room? Normally I go to bed around 9.30-10 pm. Should I sleep in the living room? Until when, forever?
- sometimes he doesn't eat much at dinner and that's one reason for me to bf him at night. However, it's a vicious circle, I know. How can I make sure he's ok and not starving the entire night?

Tonight at 6 he started showing signs of being sleepy, so I took him for a shower, he nursed and by 6.30 he was asleep.(after crying for about 5 minutes). I don't know why sometimes he's so relaxed and just falls asleep without fuss, and other times he's so upset and cries!

[anna*]

You'er co-sleeping? Do you plan to move him into his own room?
If he's hungry at night that's OK. Hunger passes. He won't come to any harm. He will just eat extra at breakfast. He will still get his bedtime BF and as per my first post you can nurse him 1 x at night for the first couple of nights.

[goso2]

Hi Anna,
thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
Yes, we sleep in the same room- I only have one bedroom. He sleeps in his crib the entire night though since Sept., except for when he wakes up and I bf him.
Could it work if we continue to share the bedroom? I can't afford a 2-bedroom appartment and won't anytime soon.

For the naps, I see you suggest a short one (45') and a longer one (>1.5 hours). Does it mean that we should wake him up from the shorter one if it's past 45'? why is that?

do you think he should have special activities at this age? I couldn't find anything specific on the forums.

I read some success stories last night and I'm thinking of trying to bf him standing in his crib at night, until Thu when I start the sleep training. I forgot the name of the mom who used this, but the baby became less interested in bf-ing this way and woke up less. What do you think?

gotta go, I'll be back

[anna*]

Hi Anna,
Yes, we sleep in the same room- I only have one bedroom. He sleeps in his crib the entire night though since Sept., except for when he wakes up and I bf him.
Could it work if we continue to share the bedroom? I can't afford a 2-bedroom appartment and won't anytime soon.

I'm sure it can work, you just need to be extra careful that you don't rush to 'help' him if he is just fussing and moaning and mantra crying. You can stay in bed and just reassure him with your voice, he will know you are nearby.

For the naps, I see you suggest a short one (45') and a longer one (>1.5 hours). Does it mean that we should wake him up from the shorter one if it's past 45'? why is that?

It's so that he's getting enough awake time to be properly tired for his naps, but not too long that he will be overtired.

do you think he should have special activities at this age? I couldn't find anything specific on the forums.

Does he go to playgroups etc? Lots of fresh air is always a good thing.

I read some success stories last night and I'm thinking of trying to bf him standing in his crib at night, until Thu when I start the sleep training. I forgot the name of the mom who used this, but the baby became less interested in bf-ing this way and woke up less. What do you think?

It's worth a try I guess? Never heard of it myself, I'd just be prepared to go through the night weaning process and understand that it will be hard work.

[weaver]

Hi there Gabi,
you've had some excellent advice from Anna, just to add that I often sleep in the same room as my LO2 (18 mos and still very keen on BFing).  There's no reason you can't do it.  She's developed a bit of a waking up habit with teething and cold.  She definitely wanted to feed at night but I have had success with telling her that 'milk has gone to sleep, it's sleeping time, every one is asleep' (and that sort of thing).  The other thing I found, about sharing a room, is that if you lie very still and pretend you're not there, often LO will just lie down and go back to sleep - usually for early waking rather than night wakings. 

Very best of luck!